BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE—ADJOURNED DEBATE. (Hansard, 11 March 1835)

The Chancellor of the Exchequer
put it to the hon. Member for Liverpool, (Mr. Ewart), whether it would not be better to reserve to the House on each evening a discretionary power of determining as to the importance of attending to the business which they had before them, rather than fetter themselves by a general resolution like that now proposed. There were some matters, for instance, which he (Sir R. Peel) thought should not be brought on later than ten o'clock. On the other hand, and especially towards the close of the Session, there were very necessary forms to be gone through, upon which there could be no doubt of the sentiments of the House; such as the third readings 851 of Bills, to which the House had already consented, which he thought would be very inconvenient to postpone, and which very often must be postponed if this Motion were agreed to. If the House were fit to legislate at all, it surely might at all times determine at what hours it would be proper to do so. If this resolution were agreed to by the House, it would imply a diffidence of their own discretion which was not at all called for.

§ Mr. George Young
said, that on this subject he did feel great diffidence of trusting to the discretion of the House. He would ask, whether it was decent that after midnight, a score of important Acts should be passed through different stages, as he, during his own experience had seen take place. It was this course of proceeding which brought discredit upon the Legislature, and created much mischief and confusion in the administration of the law. Much of the business of the House consisted in repairing the errors into which they had fallen in this way. As a man of business, he knew that when Gentlemen had unlimited time to do any business in, much of that time was occupied very unprofitably; and he was inclined to think that if the House of Commons were in some measure limited in their hours, they would get through more business than they did at present, and that some hon. Gentlemen, in consideration of the important business that was to be done, would occupy less time in long speeches and useless discussions.

§ Mr. Cutlar Fergusson
said, he had seen most important questions brought on in that House after twelve o'clock at night, ay, after one and two o'clock in the morning. He had seen Bills going through their second readings on such occasions, especially Bills relating to Scotland. He did not think that such a general rule as that proposed by the hon. Member for Tynemouth would be practicable, but he questioned, whet her a regulation might not be adopted by which it should be laid down as a rule that the important stages of Bills should not be brought on after a certain hour.

Lord John Russell
feared that if they were to lay down a general rule of the kind proposed it would not conduce to the convenience of the House, nor to the furtherance of public business. Nevertheless, he thought some course might be adopted to remedy the evil which un- 852 doubtedly existed at present. For instance, if before going into the first Order of the Day all the Orders of the Day should be read over, and their respective advocates called upon to declare whether they intended to proceed with them or not, Members who had proposed to themselves to take part in them would know whether and when they would be likely to be wanted.

§ Mr. Warburton
said, that he conceived it to be absolutely impracticable to limit the time in which the House would find it possible to get through the business of the Session. The business ought to be done, however, and they must have sufficient time to do it in, either by beginning at an earlier hour in the day, or by encroaching upon the hours of the night.

§ Mr. Hume
thought, the House ought to come to some conclusion on the subject; it was improper to do important business of such unseasonable hours as one and two o'clock in the morning. It frequently happened that Members, exhausted by the business of the day, were obliged to leave the House, and, in their absence, measures in which they were deeply interested, were carried. He admitted that every plan of arrangement was full of great difficulties, but any plan was better than the plan now acted on. He would rather meet at ten in the morning than continue after twelve at night. If the present system was persevered in there would be an accumulation of Bills which must be disposed of at a late hour, in a thin House.

Colonel Sibthorpe
agreed with the hon. Member opposite that business should be well done; but when the time of the House was wasted by long and often idle discussion, they should not get over important Bills on the ground that the time for their consideration was too late.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer
had always understood the rule to be, that the paper having been gone through, no new business could be brought forward, and that those names in the printed paper should have priority over other business; and he thought it would be better to adhere to this rule. No Motion of form ought to interfere. He would ask, whether it was not the general sense of the House that the Speaker should proceed with the notices and Orders of the Day in the succession in which they stood, it being settled that no person should interpose any Motion?

§ Mr. Hume
thought, the Motions and Orders should be regularly set down; that the Motions should come first, and the Orders follow.

§ Mr. Ewart
said, if they stopped at a certain hour they must begin earlier. When the Debates were carried on by day they were shorter and more effective, and more business was done. He had no objection, if the House pleased, to change the hour from eleven to twelve.

Mr. O'Connell
said, that the Motions represented as matters of form were often of a substantive nature. Bills relating to capital felonies were often considered as matters of form after midnight. In 1792, they went to business at three o'clock, and it was then considered a late hour. The present House was inconvenient. In most places it was too hot, and when not too hot it was too cold, and it was highly prejudicial to the health of Members to sit up these to a late hour. One great corrective of the misdeeds of the Members was public opinion, which was influenced by the fourth estate, as it was called, the press. At a late hour the reporters were worn out, morning was approaching, there was a necessity for an early publication, there might not be space for a full report, and the consequence was that the late Debates were seldom given.
The House divided on the Motion, Ayes 61: Noes 121; Majority 60.

List of the AYES.
Agnew, Sir A.	Hindley, C.
Attwood, T.	Hector, C.
Bagshaw, John	Hoskins, K.
Bewes, T.	Howard, H.
Blake, M. J.	Hume, Joseph
Barnard, Edward G.	James, P.
Blamire, W.	Lister, E.
Bodkin, John James	Lennard, T. B.
Bowring, Dr.	Lennox, Lord G.
Brocklehurst, J.	Lynch, A.
Brady, Denis C.	Marsland, H.
Bridgman, Hewitt	Mosley, Sir O.
Brodie, W. B.	M'Cance, J.
Buckingham, J. S.	Musgrave, Sir R. T.
Burdon, W. W.	Nagle, Sir R.
Brotherton, J.	O'Connell, J.
Crawford, S.	O'Brian, C.
Crewe, Sir G.	O'Brien, W.
Dennistoun, Alex.	Parrott, J.
Elphinstone, Howard	Plumptre, J. P.
Fielden, John	Pryme, George
Fitzsimon, C.	Potter, R.
Fergusson, C.	Ruthven, E.
Grote, G.	Rundle, John
Hardy, J.	Sinclair, G.
Heathcote, J.	Scholefield, J.

Smith, B.	Wakley, Thomas
Strickland, Sir G.	Whalley, Sir S.
Tancred, H. W.	Williams, W.
Thorneley, Thomas	Young, G. F.
Troubridge, Sir T.
Tulk, Charles A.	TELLERS.
Turner, W.	Ewart, W.
Verney, Sir H.	O'Connell, D.
Wallace, R.