§ Mr Hawespresented a Petition from John Pilgrim, confined in Newgate under an order of that House. The petitioner stated facts in his petition which required to be brought to the attention of the House. He stated that he had been thirty-years, preceding this transaction, the confidential clerk of Messrs. Sewell, Blake, and Co., the Solicitors at Norwich; that he was entirely under their control, and had acted throughout under their directions; that when he left England for Calais to avoid service of the Speaker's warrant he was asked to do so by a note from Mr. Keith of the house of Sewell, Blake, and Co.; that that note was procured as a colour for his absence from England; that he received 20l. from that house to cover his expenses; that after he had been absent, he felt a natural wish to return to his family; that on his arrival at Norwich, he was arrested on a criminal charge by Sewell, Blake, and Co.; and that whatever might be the imputations on his character, he was willing to be brought to the Bar of the House, and there to be examined, touching every thing in which he was concerned in reference to the Ipswich election, and to disclose every circumstance within his knowledge. There was another very strong reason stated in the petition as a ground why the House should interfere. Having been arrested by the very persons who up to that hour never raised a voice against him, when he returned home, it would be necessary for him to take his trial on the 1st of August next, therefore he prayed that the clemency of the house might be extended to him, and that he might be discharged in order that he might have 1232 an opportunity to prepare for his defence. The hon. Member thought a more reasonable claim could not be made, therefore he begged to give a formal notice that so soon as the petition should be read, he should move that Mr. Pilgrim be brought to the bar of the House to-morrow.
§ Mr. Humesuggested the propriety of having the petition printed. It appeared to him that men of respectability and character had been concerned in a conspiracy to defeat the power and object of the Legislature, and it would be a question hereafter for the House to consider whether a Committee ought not to be appointed to inquire into the circumstances. There were not only the persons mentioned in Mr. Pilgrim's petition, but the Magistrates in the county of Norfolk who had become very deeply involved in this transaction; and he could not help thinking that there ought to be the fullest investigation into the circumstances, that eventually blame should not he cast on the innocent.
§ Mr. Warburtonwould propose, if Mr. Pilgrim were to be brought to the Bar tomorrow for the purpose of being examined, that the House should sit at twelve o'clock, and that he should be examined then, so that the other important business now before the House should not be interfered with.
Mr. Hopewas of opinion that no proceedings should be taken on this petition or in this affair further until all the circumstances had been fully investigated. With respect to the petitioner's statement that he had received 20l. from Sewell, Blake, and Co. to cover his travelling expenses he had not stated one syllable of that before the Committee. He had persisted before the Committee also that it was under Mr. Clipperton's advice he had gone away.
§ Mr. Hawessaid, that by his petition Mr. Pilgrim declared that owing to the agitation he was under when before the Committee, from his having been in custody by virtue of Mr. Speaker's warrant, and also under a criminal charge, he had not had presence of mind sufficient to enable him to make that statement.
§ Mr. Gisbornesaid, that if the House brought Mr. Pilgrim up to be examined at the Bar, he believed it would be adopting a course which had not been resorted to on any former occasion. On all previous occasions, a party having similarly of- 1233 fended had been brought to the bar, simply to be reprimanded and discharged. He agreed with the hon. Member, that it was extremely desirable there should be a Committee appointed to examine into the whole of the affair. He had only received the evidence last night which had been taken before the Committee, and had not had time to go through it. He should apply himself as diligently as possible to it, and he hoped that in the course of two or three days he should be able to state what the course was that he thought ought to be adopted. He should be sorry to throw any obstruction in Mr. Pilgrim's way; he hoped the House would agree to the Motion of the hon. Member for Lambeth, and if it was considered right, any hon. Member might tomorrow move that Mr. Pilgrim when brought up should be remanded.
§ Lord John Russellthought it would be very inconvenient to press such a Motion at present.
§ Mr. Robert Steuartsaid, that he held in his hand a similar petition from Mr. Dasent, who was also well known to the House. By his petition he confessed his crime, alluded to the extent of his punishment, and expressed his willingness to appear at the Bar, and answer any questions the House might be pleased to put to him. Probably the best, easiest, and shortest course to arrive at justice would be to pursue the line which had been adopted in the Camelford case in 1819. In that case the period of imprisonment did not exceed five days, a d he really thought the fair course here would be to have the parties brought to the Bar, that they might be reprimanded and discharged, on their deliberate undertaking, as in the Camelford case, to return and give full and free examination whenever they might be required to do so at any future time.
Sir George Clerktook the same view of the question as the hon. Member for Haddington who had just spoken. He would put it to the noble Lord opposite, to say whether he did not think the parties had suffered punishment sufficient for the offence they had committed. The noble Lord would find, that in no former case where parties had been sent to Newgate by the House for a similar offence, had they been subjected to so long an imprisonment. If th were now to be called to the Bar, reprimanded, and discharged, it would still be open for the House to take any further 1234 proceedings it might deem it expedient to resort to.
Mr. Kearslegrose, in pursuance of the notice he had given, to move "that the persons now confined in Newgate in consequence of the report of the Ipswich election Committee be brought to the Bar of the House." After what had passed, he would not occupy the time of the House. He sincerely hoped hon. Members would not refuse to accede to his Motion, but that they would be merciful to those who were now in affliction, knowing, as they must, how much they—how very much they themselves stood in need of mercy.
§ Mr. Humeapprehended that it was not competent to propose any measure of relief for persons who had been committed to Newgate by that House for an offence against the House until after the parties themselves had presented petitions.
§ Mr. Wodehousesaid, that he had a Petition to present to the House from Messrs. Sewell, Blake, and Co., but that from an accident he had it not with him, in which they distinctly denied the allegations made by Mr. Pilgrim in his petition. He hoped the House would permit him to present the petition to-morrow.
§ Lord Hennikersaid, he had a Petition in his hand from Mr. Sparrow, which he had been requested to present.
§ Mr. Williams Wynnsaid, he really thought the better way would be to postpone any proceedings for the present, that all the parties might have an opportunity of having petitions presented.
§ Mr. Robert Steuartsaid, he should like very much that the whole of this thing should be sifted fully, and that it should he made public, because he was quite sure that, notwithstanding the long investigation which had taken place on this subject, there was still much that remained in mystery. At the same time, he thought that the parties ought to be brought up and discharged in the manner he had before pointed out had been done in the Camelford case.
§ Sir John Wrottesleycould not accede to the Motion. The petition should be printed, and afterwards the House ought to have twenty-four hours for consideration.
§ Mr. Grotethought, that the discharge of those persons should be preceded by the appointment of that Committee of which notice had been given for an inquiry into all those facts of the case which it was admitted on all hands were involved in the greatest mystery.
§ Lord John Russellsaid, it would be advisable that all the petitions now in the hands of hon. Members, as well as any others which might be sent by to-morrow from the other prisoners, should first of all be presented; afterwards any order might be made for them to appear immediately at the Bar, and the House might take any course which it should think proper to adopt.
§ Mr. Williams Wynncould see no objection to the House now making a simple order for the attendance of the prisoners tomorrow in custody of the keeper of Newgate; and they might then determine what course should be pursued. The great object in committing them had already been accomplished—namely, the vindication of the honour and independence of the House.
§ Mr. Wilksconsidered it impossible, consistently with the claims of justice, to make an order for the attendance of the prisoners to-morrow, especially after the notice which had been given by the hon. Member for Norfolk (Mr. Wodehouse) of the petition to be presented from Messrs. Sewell and Blake, with reference to the allegations of Pilgrim. It was but right that both sides should be heard before any step was taken towards the discharge of that individual. In the present state of the matter it was the duty of the House to take care that it was not precipitate in its proceedings.
§ Sir Robert Peelthought, that there would be considerable difficulty in making any order for the prisoners to appear tomorrow to await any contingency that might occur. The mere circumstance of their being in waiting would fetter the proceedings of the House. At the same time there would, no doubt, be considerable hardship in detaining them in prison till Monday, if the House should ultimately be of opinion that they ought to be discharged to-morrow. He should recommend that the whole of the petitions be now presented, and taken into consideration immediately the House met to-morrow, and if the prevailing opinion was that the petitioners ought to be discharged, they would, no doubt, submit to the inconvenience of interrupting the debate in a later period of the evening, in order to have their immediate attendance. That course, he thought, would be most considerate for all parties.
§ Motion withdrawn.