NEW SOUTH WALES. (Hansard, 3 July 1835)

§ Mr. Henry Bulwer
said, that he had an important Petition to present from this Colony, and he would not infringe on this occasion the very proper Rule laid down by the right hon. Gentleman in the Chair, were it not that by laying the case now before the House he should do away with the necessity for a Motion upon it. The petition was signed by 6,000 free inhabitants of New South Wales, and the petitioners claimed that a Legislative Assembly should be granted to the Colony. He would state shortly and simply the peculiar circumstances of the case, and then he would appeal to the justice and good sense of the Government to do 228 what was proper regarding it. The population of the colony consisted of 60,000 persons. The revenue amounted to 135,000l. per annum. Over this large revenue, and large population, there was placed a Governor, exercising an almost unlimited authority—an authority only limited by the Executive Council, the greater number of the. members of which small body were named by the executive Government, and the remainder by the Governor himself. This was a state of things that required a remedy, but the Question was as to how the evil could be satisfactorily removed. The great difficulties that stood in the way of granting a Legislative Assembly to this colony were, first, the difficulty of finding a proper representative body, and next the difficulty of providing a respectable constituency. Now, it appeared that at the present moment there were 120 persons exercising the duties of magistrates in this colony, and who were perfectly competent to fill any office. Here, then, was a respectable body of persons out of which the members might be chosen. With regard to the construction of a constituent body, these questions arose—whether it would be advisable to admit into it persons who, having gone out originally to the colony as convicts, had served their time out and had become freedmen; and whether, if they should not be admitted into it, there still would be a sufficient number of settlers to constitute such a body. Now with regard to the first class of persons, the freedmen, they had been allowed for several years to exercise an indirect power over property in serving on juries, &c, and when no evil was found to flow from their doing so, no evil surely would flow from their exercising a direct power over it. But the number of freedmen that would be admitted to the constituent body would be very small. Excluding them, however, altogether, there still was a large class of respectable settlers, amongst whom a constituent body could be found. There was one further question, and that was as to time. It might be considered, that although it might be necessary to grant this great privilege to the population, yet that some time must elapse before it could be carried into effect. In his opinion that argument would be most erroneous. The practicability of all institutions depended on the applicability of those institutions to the minds of men. If what the population now prayed for were granted at present, there would be persons 229 to receive it who had enjoyed the advantage of freedom and intelligence; whereas, if it were delayed till a distant period, it would be found it could only then be granted to those who had grown up in a state of barbarism. Sir James Mackintosh had used the same argument; he had said, that the present persons would be much more likely to understand and to appreciate the benefit of free institutions than those who would grow up in the colony hereafter. With these observations he begged to bring up the petition.

§ Sir George Grey
said, he was sure the hon. Gentleman could not expect that he was to give any pledge at present for the Government on a subject that required the most mature consideration. The present Act of Parliament by which this colony was governed, would expire in the Session of Parliament succeeding December 1836; so that the circumstances under which that colony was constituted would have to come under the notice of the Legislature in the course of the next Session of Parliament; and he would give this pledge—that before any new act was brought forward for the government of New South Wales, his Majesty's Government would not fail to give the subject its most serious consideration. He had no doubt his Majesty's Ministers would look at the subject with the most anxious desire to extend, as far as possible, to the colony the benefit of free institutions.

§ Mr. Maurice O'Connell
had great pleasure in supporting the prayer of this petition, and was perfectly satisfied that the desire for a Legislative Assembly was so great, that till it was granted the colonists would not be satisfied, and most probably that desire would increase into positive discontent.

§ Mr. Hume
could not but feel gratified at what the hon. Baronet said, but it would afford the subjects of the colony only very little consolation to hear it stated, that in two or three years hence the Act of Parliament by which they were governed would expire, and that then an attempt would be made to do something for them. The House ought to know that that colony was taxed to an enormous amount, more in proportion than Great Britain, and the subjects had no control whatever over the appropriation to the amount of 1s., or any thing to do in the regulation of the taxes. The whole was at the mercy of the Governor. The petition pointed out a most important fact which had not been stated—namely, that while the free population exceeded 230 60,000, exclusive of 25,000 convicts, the revenue had increased last year from 132,000l. to 135,000l.; and if the aggregate of taxation was taken in proportion to the population, it would be found that the subjects were taxed at the rate of 3l. per head. The colonists asserted that they were competent to manage their own affairs, and where there were 120 persons proper for magistrates, it would be strange indeed if fifty proper persons could not be found to form a Legislative Assembly. Looking at the colony and its expenditure, any man would wonder how such enormous sums could be disposed of; the numerous appointments with large salaries required the strong hand of reduction to be applied by those who, living on the spot, knew the value of commodities, and could judge how the public officers ought to he remunerated. The day was gone by when it was thought that the taxation and administration of a remote colony could be fitly regulated in Downing-street. Were not Ministers about to give to every petty corporation in England the direction of its own affairs, and surely the claim of the petitioners, and the claim of the settlers in Van Diemen's Land too, ought not to be resisted? In the West Indies there were fourteen different houses of assembly to as many islands, the united population of which did not amount to that of New South Wales. How then could the petitioners be satisfied when they saw such inequality in the system? If it were meant to make the colonies valuable to this country, the people of those colonies ought to be rendered contented with their condition; and if England were anxious to get rid of surplus population, emigrants should be offered an asylum where they were not subject to military domination, but had the benefit of free institutions.

§ Sir Henry Hardinge
rose to call the hon. Member to order, as the House had agreed not to discuss petitions.

§ Mr. Hume
replied, that the objection was to lengthened speeches of three quarters of an hour, for instance upon Municipal Reform, when the Question would come in so many other shapes before the House. Here was a petition on a subject which could not otherwise be discussed, and which, if debated now, would save the trouble of a regular and separate Motion. He was not desirous of detaining the House, but was anxious to remark upon a point not adverted to by his hon. Friend who presented the petition, that this colony, unlike most others, although so heavily taxed, had not any 231 control over the disbursement of the revenues. The request of the petitioners appeared to him extremely moderate, and he hoped that Ministers would mete out equal justice, and would not forget such an important possession, because they were engaged in legislating in the same spirit for the small boroughs of the country.

§ Mr. O'Connell
would only detain the House a few moments. He was almost sorry that the right hon. Baronet (Sir George Grey) had been able to give so distinct a pledge upon the subject, because at all events it prevented the adoption of any immediate measures, and to a certain extent deprived the colony of the sympathy of the House. As the existing Act would expire in December, 1836, a consideration of the state of New South Wales must necessarily take place in the next Session, and he hoped that a strong inclination would then be felt to give to the settlers all the advantages which as British subjects they were entitled to. Free institutions ought to be planted wherever they would flourish, and prerogative ought to over-ride the rights of freemen only where the peculiar situation of the colony required it. The petitioners asked for a representative assembly, not such a mockery of legislation as existed in some of the West-India Islands. There were more free colonists in New South Wales than in fourteen of the West-India Islands. In giving a Legislative Assembly to New South Wales, he hoped that the distinction between free settlers and emancipationists would not be continued: emancipationists were entitled to every encouragement. A man who went out a convict, served out his time, reformed his character and habits, and acquired property, ought to enjoy all the benefits of his improved moral and political condition. After a Legislative Assembly had been given to the colony, the next step would be to give them the power of electing an Executive Council, so that it might have the entire management of its own affairs, while it paid a willing obedience to the mother country.

§ Mr. Bagshaw
had heard the intimation of Ministers with satisfaction, and hoped that the state of the Cape of Good Hope and Malta would be taken into early consideration.

§ Sir Henry Hardinge
referred to the consequences of the Reform Bill upon the colonies, which it might be almost said to have disfranchised, inasmuch as the only Member now sitting as the representative of a colony was the hon. Member for Bath.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer
denied that the remark was applicable. The very speeches made this evening showed that the colonies were not unrepresented, and that the House as well as the Government felt the deepest anxiety for their welfare. The general mass of the people, including of course the ten pound householders, was interested in every question relating to our foreign possessions, and would return Members well calculated to legislate in their behalf. Looking to times past, before the Reform Bill was in operation, he saw that East-India Directors then represented populous places, and they might do so still; and it was one of the arguments used on the Reform Bill, that the Chairman of the Court of Directors was returned by a popular constituency.

§ Mr. Wilks
said, that there was no Member of Parliament who might not be said to represent the colonies of the country; and in his opinion the colonies were better represented now than under the unreformed Parliament.