BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. (Hansard, 26 February 1835)

§ Mr. Ewart
rose to move, that no public business of importance should be introduced after eleven o'clock at night. He had a strong impression of the necessity of such a regulation as this, both as respected the Members of that House and the public. At such a late hour, the House was generally in an exhausted state, and it was then impossible to do business properly. He was of opinion, that the plan he proposed was the only mode for securing sound and rational legislation. It was well known that at present a great deal of the most important business of the House was transacted after midnight, when Members were unable effectually to discharge their duty to the public, and were most of them slumbering on the benches. It was at such times as these that advantage was taken to smuggle obnoxious Bills through the House, and it was also on such occasions, that those who opposed Bills, had an opportunity of throwing them out. He scarcely knew any assembly in the world that carried on its Debates at such late hours as that House. Indeed, the only assembly he could find that did so 321 was in ancient times, that of the Areopagites, who discussed their business during the night. It might be truly said, that the Debates of that house, after two or three o'clock in the morning, were carried on under the influence of sleep,— Sleep the tir'd Members slumbering all around, And sleep the Clerks below. With a view to put an end to such a ridiculous species of legislation, he now made this proposition:—It would be conducive at once to the public interests, and to the character of the House, that no new public business should be introduced after eleven o'clock at night. If a Debate had been commenced previous to that hour, of course it would be open to the House to carry it on to whatever hour it chose; and if an Estimate had been brought forward before eleven o'clock, of course the Debate on it might go on to its conclusion. He hoped his Motion would be adopted, as it would greatly facilitate the transaction of public business.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer
thought that the hon. Member could scarcely be in earnest in bringing forward so important a Motion in such a thin House. It was not a proposition to which, as far as he was personally concerned, it would be his interest to object, as of course the Chief Minister of the Crown, who was obliged to give such incessant attendance there, would be too happy to have an excuse to retire from public business at an early hour. But the fact was, that it was quite clear that the whole condition of the public business must be reviewed before a regulation of the kind could be adopted. If such a change were introduced, it would limit the hours for public business to six. If, indeed, they commenced business at ten o'clock in the morning, as was the ancient usage, it might be possible to make some such regulation. But before they introduced such a change now, it would be necessary, as he had already said, to review all the circumstances and condition of the public business, and also the private arrangements of Members of Parliament. Above all, it should be recollected that a great portion of their public duties was transacted in Committees, and that, too, of the most useful description to the public. The Debates in that House were very often the contentions of party, and were not unfrequently taken up with long and unnecessary speeches, while the real business of the country was done in Com- 322 mittees. Nothing, therefore, would be more unreasonable than to curtail the time devoted to the business transacted in Committees. He did not think, besides, that the hon. Member's proposition would effect his object, which he had stated was to prevent the introduction of any new business after eleven o'clock at night. The hon. Gentleman complained that there was a good deal of somnolency about twelve or one o'clock, but he did not object to the Debates, if they had commenced before eleven o'clock, continuing to that time, or even a later hour. Why would the hon. Gentleman refuse to allow the introduction of some new subject at those hours which might possibly have the effect of awakening them? After their attention was wearied! for hours with some perhaps most uninteresting Debate, he would not allow them to take up any new matter, while they might go on with the old topic, pregnant as it might be with persuasives for sleep, to the latest hour. Besides, it should be remembered, that there were many matters of form, particularly towards the close of a Session, some twenty or thirty Orders of the Day perhaps, which it was obviously necessary for the despatch of public business should be disposed of, and to which no one paid the least attention. Now, the effect of the hon. Member's proposition would be to prevent the introduction of such matters after eleven o'clock. He trusted, that the good sense of the hon. Gentleman would induce him to defer this matter to a later period of the Session, so that all the new Members might be enabled from experience to form a judgment with regard to it. It was, in his opinion, a matter that it would be far better to leave to the discretion of the House. Speaking from his own experience, he would say, that the adoption of the proposition of the hon. Gentleman would be productive of the greatest possible inconvenience. What a temptation would not such a regulation offer to any Member who was desirous to prevent any new matter being brought forward on a certain night! By beginning his speech a little before eleven o'clock, and protracting the peroration of it until after that hour, he could easily accomplish his object. On the whole, he hoped that the hon. Member would allow the House to exercise its discretion upon the subject.

§ Major Beauclerk
agreed with the right hon. Baronet in thinking that they should 323 not discuss such a subject in so thin a House. He therefore hoped his hon. friend would withdraw the Motion, and bring it forward on some future day. It was a matter of the greatest importance to the House as well as to the country. He could speak from experience of the evils of the present system, as last Session be had been obliged to wait for sixteen nights, night after night, in the House, to oppose a Bill brought in by the late hon. Member for Shrewsbury, the discussions upon which were generally taken at one or two o'clock in the morning, and after all the Bill was given up. He thought, on such grounds, that some hour should be fixed, after which no new business should be allowed to be introduced. It was only by meeting at an early hour that they really could do the business of the country properly. It might be unpleasant to lawyers and merchants to attend at such hours, but there were a vast number of Gentlemen sent there from different parts of the country to do the public business, and it was ridiculous to suppose that the convenience of a few lawyers in London was to determine every regulation of the House. He knew of no subject in which the public was more interested, especially as it was notorious that many important Bills were passed in Houses of fifty or sixty Members, and that several of the Estimates were introduced after twelve o'clock at night.

Mr. O'Connell
reminded the House, that in all other legislative assemblies business was done at reasonable hours. The House of Commons was the only public assembly in the world at which public business of so important a character was transacted at such late hours. There were a thousand things occurred by candlelight which would not bear the open light of day. Levity was frequently exhibited on the discussion of interests which required the gravest deliberation. The Representatives of France usually finished their discussions by five o'clock in the afternoon. The Representatives of America also finished their business by an early hour—and why? Because they began early in the day. He thought that the business of the House ought to commence at eight or nine o'clock in the morning. Why should they not commence at as early an hour as the Courts of Law? It would be a great improvement on their present practice to commence at half- 324 past nine o'clock, or even ten o'clock, in the morning. He was convinced, that if they would commence at an early hour, and sit till seven or eight o'clock in the evening, they would do more business in three days of the week than they did in six according to the present arrangements. They would thus have three days clear for the transaction of business in Committee. Something, he was sure, must be done. The House ought not to follow the old system any longer, as the public were entitled to have the best employment of their time. The young men might not feel the fatigue of their present late hours, as they might be amusing themselves elsewhere, but it was a serious inconvenience to those hon. Members who were from fifty to sixty years of age. it was only the youthful part of the House that could long endure such fatigue. He hoped that a division would take place upon this subject, if not to-night, at least at an early period, and that the hon. Member for Liverpool would continue to divide the House, from week to week, until some better arrangement was made.

§ Mr. Hume
said, that the question to be decided was, whether the business of the House was well done or not under the present arrangements. He thought that it was quite impossible for any one who saw the mode in which they legislated after one or two o'clock in the morning, to say that business was well done. Something ought to be done to remedy this inconvenience in the present Session.

§ Mr. Ewart
thought, that there was not much value in the right hon. Baronet's observation, that an hon. Member who was anxious to postpone the discussion of any Bill, would prolong the peroration of his speech so as to occupy their time till after eleven o'clock. The argument possessed more ingenuity than solidity. There was a great prodigality and waste of time in their present system of late hours. He would therefore put an end to it at once. He did not make this proposition merely for the convenience of the House—he looked to the advantage of the nation, which required that its business should be done at seasonable hours, Of order that it should be well done. Of course business would be better conducted at natural hours than at unnatural hours. It had been very truly remarked by the hon. and learned Member for Dublin, that this was the only legislative assembly in the 325 world which held its deliberations at such late hours; but our Parliamentary Records testified, that it was the practice of our ancestors to meet at more reasonable hours. In making this Motion, he was only carrying back the House to its ancient constitutional practice, the wisdom of which he did not expect either the right hon. Baronet or any of his present colleagues to gainsay. He declared his intention of bringing forward this subject again at the end of a fortnight, by which time the new Members would have had a taste of the late hours, which the right hon. Baronet appeared so anxious they should enjoy. At present he would content himself with moving the adjournment of the Debate to Friday the 11th of March.