METROPOLITAN POLICE. (Hansard, 13 March 1834)

§ Mr. Clay
presented a Petition from the parish of St. George, in the county of Middlesex, complaining of the institution of the me- 126 tropolitan police, as being at variance with the principles of the British constitution. He did not think it right at present to enter into any discussion of the merits of this force. This petition, as well as other circumstances, showed that great dislike for the force prevailed throughout a considerable portion of the metropolis. He believed, however, that there were many parishes in the metropolis where this feeling did not exist to the same extent. It was his own opinion that, with proper regulations, the force might be made a valuable institution, and it had very great advantage over the old watch system, in possessing the power of acting with combined strength. Nothing was more necessary than that a force established for purposes such as these, should have the goodwill, confidence, and support of the community amongst whom they were placed, and for whose benefit and protection they were established. The efficiency of such an establishment must depend in a great measure upon its possessing the confidence of the public.

§ Sir Samuel Whalley
thought it very desirable that the Government should turn its attention to diminish the expense of the metropolitan police. It was an efficient force, and he believed, that the principal cause of the dislike entertained towards it in the metropolis, was the great increase of the parochial expenses since its institution. He was glad to see the noble Lord, the Under Secretary for the Home Department in his place, as he might have an opportunity of removing an apprehension which was very generally felt abroad, that the Committee which had been appointed this Session, to inquire into the constitution, management, and expenditure of the police, was not fairly formed. Neither of the members for Westminster was upon that Committee. Nor was he, although he represented two of the most populous parishes in the metropolis. His learned colleague, indeed, had been put upon the Committee, but that Gentleman had not half the leisure to devote to the inquiry that he had.

§ Viscount Howick
denied, that there was anything unfair in the manner in which the Committee had been appointed. Last Session a Committee had been named, to which not the slightest objection had been made. The Committee had proceeded to investigate, but were unable to 127 bring their labours to a close; and, in pursuance of the recommendation of that Committee, another had been appointed, and he (Lord Howick) had copied the list of last Session, merely substituting for the names of three or four Gentlemen, who were unable to attend, the names of other persons, who, he had reason to believe, would attend. He thought, therefore, that the assertion of the hon. member for Marylebone, relative to the appointment of that Committee, was unfair and uncalled for. The statement made by the same hon. Member, with respect to the expense of the police force, he must also say, was a little premature, as he could assure the House that that establishment had been managed with the greatest economy. Any person who looked to the services rendered by that body, would at once admit that the money it cost had not been thrown away.

Colonel Evans
did not think the explanation of the noble Lord very satisfactory; but he was bound to thank the noble Lord for not having taken up his time, by putting him upon the Committee. He should not be the less acceptable to his constituents, and especially to the popular party, for not having been appointed by the Government upon a single Committee. There was a Committee last year upon East-Indian affairs, and he was excluded from it, although, there was but one other military man who knew as much of India as he (Colonel Evans) knew. Again, there was a Committee upon the military establishments, and from that also, the Ministers did him the honour to exclude him, though that could not be on account of his want of experience. He had, therefore, to thank the noble Lord for giving him that opportunity of showing that there could be but little reason for the supposition, which he had understood was beginning to prevail, that he was about to ally himself to the Government. But, still he thought that it was, to say the least of it, indiscreet to exclude the metropolitan Members from an inquiry in which the metropolis was so much concerned. However, for his own part, he could only thank the noble Lord for having spared him a duty, to which, if it had devolved upon him, he would have given his best attention. He entirely concurred in what had been said by the hon. member for the Tower Hamlets, and he knew, that throughout the whole of 128 the metropolis, there was a feeling towards the police, similar to that expressed by the petitioners. That feeling was not political—and, it was admitted, that the police was an efficient force. But a great jealousy was felt, that so large a military body, uniting, too, a system of espionage with their military character, should be under an irresponsible control, and at the disposal of the Minister for the time. The expense, too, was a great matter of objection. He did not know what was the object of the Committee. He believed that it had been appointed before he and the hon. member for Marylebone had been returned—but he thought that they ought to have been added to it since. He did not know what was its object; but, he knew that it was the practice of Government, when it wanted to be proved that a strong feeling abroad was unfounded, to form a Committee of persons favourable to the views of the Government. But, from what he had seen of the noble Lord's (Lord Howick's) political conduct, he believed that, if the noble Lord gave his attention to the subject, he would make considerable improvements in the system. He did not believe that any desire was felt to return to the old system of the watch, but to place the police under some local control.

§ Sir Robert Peel
reminded the House that the Committee had been appointed at the suggestion of the hon. member for Middlesex; and, as to its composition, he was sure, there could be no objection to placing upon it either of the hon. Members, or any other hon. Member who expressed a desire to be upon it. But he hoped the House would suspend its judgment, both upon the expense and the administration of the metropolitan police, till the Report of the Committee was made. It was denounced as an expensive force; but the term "expensive" was relative, and, in order to find out its value in the present case, they must first inquire whether the number of the men employed was greater than was necessary to preserve the peace of the metropolis. They must next ascertain whether their dress was too expensive, or the pay higher than it ought to be; or whether it was made a source of patronage, which he was sure it was not, the object being to secure as efficient persons as possible. If it should be found upon inquiry, that efficient men could be secured for less pay, he was sure there 129 could be no desire on the part of the Committee to maintain it at its present amount. At the same time, he must observe, that it was exceedingly desirable that the pay should be such as to preserve them from the necessity of enlisting only scamps into the service. The police ought to be men of respectability, for they were intrusted with the discharge of a very great and most important duty, and were often called upon to exercise considerable discretion. It was essential, he thought, that the Government should be responsible for the direction of the police, which it could not be, if the parochial authorities were permitted to interfere with it. Indeed, if that took place, all the responsibility would be destroyed, for the Commissioners could not be responsible, the Government could not be responsible, nor in times of commotion or turbulence would it be possible to make a number of separate and distinct parochial authorities responsible for not acting together with uniformity of purpose and object. Considering, at the same time, that his Majesty's Government defrayed a portion, and that not a small one, of this force, it was not unreasonable for it, on that score, to claim the control which it possessed. He would, however, suggest to the noble Lord, to place upon the Committee any Gentleman who expressed a desire to that effect, of course not allowing those who had peculiar views to obtain an unjust preponderance.

§ Major Beauclerk
said, the petitioners did not complain of the efficiency of the police force; they objected to the expense, and they called upon Government to look into this expense. He thought that this was a most reasonable request. They said too, that it ought not to be under the control of the Home-Office, and in that he fully concurred. He contended that it was a most dangerous principle to allow the force to be under the control of the Home Department. He admitted, that, under the right hon. Gentleman's administration, or even under the present Government, it might not be dangerous to allow such a force to be under the control of the Home-Office, but the time might come when it would be most dangerous to allow the Home-Office to have any such powerful control whatever over the metropolitan police. He believed, that a Central Board chosen from all the parishes would be the better course to adopt, 130 giving it full power over the men; and he was sure, that greater attention would be paid to the expense arising out of the maintenance of this force, by a Board consisting of individuals selected from the various parishes, than by the Government. He did not, nor did the petitioners, say that these men were too well paid. On the contrary, he believed that many bad men obtained an entrance into the force in consequence of the pay not being sufficient to induce men of good character to accept situations in it. But he complained, that there were too many men belonging to the police, and the number could be lessened, without the efficiency of the force being in the slightest degree impaired.

Mr. Cayley
said, that 60,000l. had been voted last year for the maintenance of a force which was created for purely local purposes. He thought that the country at large ought not to be saddled with a tax from which it derived no benefit. He did not mean to deny the utility of such an establishment in the Metropolis, but he thought the expense ought to be borne by the inhabitants.

§ Mr. Hawes
said, that the Committee of last year were unanimous in their approval of the manner in which the metropolitan police was regulated, not only in the economical management of the funds appropriated to that service, but also of the excellent system of discipline under which the men were governed. The only improvement which the Committee thought might be effected, was that of giving the sole control of the force to the Commissioners, and taking it from under the control of the Home-Office.

§ Sir Henry Hardinge
was of opinion, that the police corps and the Commissioners should be under the control of the Government; but, at the same time, he thought that the selection of men, and all matters of discipline and internal management, should be under the control of the Commissioners, and not be interfered with by the Government. Indeed, that was what he understood was to be the case when the force was established. In cases of meetings of Trades' Unions and other bodies, from which riots might be apprehended, it was necessary that the Government should have some control over the force, otherwise it would place too high a responsibility on the Commissioners.