§ Lord Althorp, in pursuance of the notice he had given, rose to move, that a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the County Rates in England and Wales, and to report, whether any, and what regulations might be adopted to diminish their pressure on the owners and occupiers of the land. The noble Lord stated, that he 1350 was induced to move for the appointment of such a Committee by the conviction, that to the oppression caused upon the agricultural interests by local burthens, the distress under which those interests laboured, was really attributable. There were two branches, however, of the local charges which he thought it would be better not to include in the inquiry he then moved for, namely, the highway-rates, and the poor-rates. Those rates did not belong to what was called the county-rate; but, in addition to that reason for excluding them from the present inquiry, there were two others, which he thought would be deemed quite satisfactory by the House. The first was, that there was at that moment a measure before Parliament for the regulation of the highway-rates; and the second, that in addition to the intention which he had expressed of introducing a measure on the subject of Poor-laws, those laws constituted in themselves a subject-matter well worthy of a separate and distinct investigation, should it appear there was not already information before the House sufficient to enable it to Legislate upon the question. As the subject which he proposed submitting to investigation, was one which resolved itself into a variety of details, it was his intention to propose the appointment of a very numerous Committee, in order that, should it appear to its members advisable, they might have the opportunity of dividing themselves into several Sub-Committees. Whether they should do so or not, he proposed leaving entirely to their discretion. The noble Lord then formally proposed his Motion.
§ Mr. Feargus O'Connorexpressed his surprise, that the noble Lord had not proposed, that the subject of the county-rates in Ireland should be referred to the Committee, as well as those of England and Wales. In the county which he had the honour of representing, the county-rates amounted to 100,000l. a-year, and for the whole of Ireland, they were no less than 1,000,000l. annually. He would undertake to prove, that there never was such an unjust squandering and misapplication of funds, as took place under this system in Ireland.
§ Lord Althorpsaid, that whether or not it might be considered advisable to appoint a Committee to inquire into the system of county-rates in Ireland, a point upon which he would not pledge himself, he 1351 thought there could be but one opinion as to the inexpediency of coupling that inquiry with an investigation into the county-rates in England and Wales. It was true, that the law on the subject was strictly the same in both countries; but, in point of fact, the rates were levied in Ireland by orders of Grand Juries, whilst in England they were raised by orders of the Courts of Quarter Sessions. He admitted, that the county-rates did press most severely upon the occupiers of land in Ireland, but he would not pledge himself to move for the appointment of a Committee to inquire respecting them. Under the circumstances, he hoped, that the hon. Member would be satisfied.
§ Mr. Feargus O'Connorsaid, that he would be satisfied if the noble Lord held out any hope, that the grievance of which he complained should become the subject of inquiry; but he had not done so. If the noble Lord did not like to move for the appointment of a Committee, he would do so.
§ Mr. Spring Ricesaid, that from the remarks which the hon. member for Cork had made, hon. Gentlemen might really be induced to suppose, that the questions of county-rates, and Grand Jury Laws, in Ireland, had never been made the subject of inquiry, whereas they had been the matter of repeated inquiry. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman meant to say (and probably he did not altogether dispute the point), that those inquiries had proved ineffectual; but seeing that only last year the House had passed a Bill to alter the Grand Jury Laws, he thought the only object to be gained by the appointment of a Committee at present, would be, that of inquiring into the old system, for whether the new system worked ill or well, remained to be proved. He hoped, however, that the new system would correct many of those abuses which had been alluded to by the hon. Gentleman. It must, however, be much better to inquire how the new system worked.
§ Mr. Feargus O'Connorsaid, that the new system altered the mode of levying the county-rates, but made no change with respect to their expenditure.
§ Sir Robert Peelsuggested, that as the Committee was to be divided into several Sub-Committees, one of the divisions should direct their attention and inquiries to the working of the Grand Jury Bill of last Session, upon both the levying and 1352 expenditure of the county-rates. At the same time, he thought, the subject was one well worthy of a separate motion. He was quite disposed to admit, there was some reason for excluding those branches of local taxation which came under the head of poor-rates, and church-rates, from the inquiry the noble Lord proposed to institute; but, he confessed, he saw no reason why the highway-rates, which constituted a highly important feature in local taxation, should not come under the investigation of the Committee. He was aware, that the highway-rates were levied by an authority different from that under which county-rates were raised; but he thought it would be extremely expedient to show the manner in which those rates were expended.
§ Mr. Littletonbegged to remind the right hon. Baronet, that there was, at that moment, a Bill on the subject of highways before the House.
§ The Motion agreed to, and the Committee appointed.