§ Mr. Gillonpresented a Petition from certain members of the Town Council of Cupar (Fife) praying for the severance of The existing connection between Church and State. Such opinions as were professed 1193 by these petitioners, were every day gaining ground in Scotland. He presumed that his hon. friend, the member for St. Andrew's, would not deny their existence to a great extent in the county, of which this burgh was the principal town. It had been said, that he was the only Scotch Member who entertained these sentiments. To that statement he demurred; but admitting it to be true, he begged to doubt whether it was conclusive that he was wrong and they were right. All which the Dissenters demanded was fair and open discussion, because, being satisfied that their principles were founded on the broad basis of truth and justice, they, courted investigation. They protested, however, against the attempt as unchristian as it would be ineffectual, to assail them with false aspersions of want of religion or infidelity. This showed the weakness of the cause of their opponents, who met fair argument by calumny and outrage. He took upon him to say, that there were not in the world men more eminent for piety and religious zeal, than among those who professed the principle that churches should be voluntarily supported. Their zeal did not evaporate in mere words, as they supported their own clergy and churches, besides being taxed for the support of the dominant sect. It had been said, first, that the Dissenters formed a very small proportion of the population of Scotland, not more than five hundred thousands out of two millions. There never was a greater error than this. In all the populous and best educated parts of Scotland, the Dissenters much outnumbered the Churchmen. In 1830, the sittings in the churches in Edinburgh and Leith were—39,000 Dissenters; 27,000 Churchmen. In the district of country with which he was more immediately connected, he could state the Dissenters were three or four to one as compared with the Churchmen. In Falkirk, containing a population of 12,000, there was only accommodation in the Established Church for 1,400. How, he would ask, would the people be stored with religious knowledge at all, were it not for the voluntary efforts of the Dissenters? Another statement was, that only a small portion of the Dissenters were opposed to the connexion between Church and State. He could only speak from experience and facts, and he could say, that he scarcely knew a Dissenter who was not opposed to the connexion. 1194 Besides a very great many other petitions on this subject, which he had last year presented, he had been intrusted with one from Glasgow, signed by 16,000 persons, and adorned by such names as those of Dr. Wardlaw and Dr. Waugh. Would any one venture to throw on those reverend gentlemen the aspersion of want of religious feeling? A third statement was, that it was necessary to keep up the Church establishment for the religious instruction of the poor. The very reverse of this was the fact. The poor principally derived their spiritual nourishment from the Dissenting congregations, and, without the unwearied zeal of the Dissenting ministers, Scotland would indeed have presented the aspect of a moral desert. It was found by late investigations, that in Edinburgh, where the sittings of the Established Churches were to a great degree untenanted, those seats which let the highest, were occupied of course by the aristocracy, while, as you descended in the scale of price, the proportion of occupied seats diminished. He held, then, that the Established Church existed more especially for the benefit of the rich, and not of the poor, and as opposed to the best interests of religion in general. He supported the prayer of the petition.
Mr. Hughes Hughessaid, he had only one word to say upon one of the petitions presented by the hon. Gentleman. He thought the petitioners of Cupar might have waited till the reverend Prelates had expressed a wish to be relieved from their duties in the House of Lords, before they so kindly interfered in their behalf. He was very happy to see the petition was written on a very small piece of paper. Therefore he drew the inference, that the feeling against the Bishops had not grown to such an extent as stated by the hon. Member.
§ Mr. Andrew Johnstonwould not have troubled the House with a single observation, had he not been called upon by the hon. Member, who presented a petition from a portion of his (Mr. Johnston's) constituents. The history of that petition was this:—A meeting of the Town Council of Cupar was called, and a petition respecting Church patronage was proposed. An amendment, containing the spirit of the present petition, for the severance of Church and State, was moved as an amendment, without the slightest notice, and it was carried by a majority of only 1195 one, eight being one way, and nine the other. After wards another meeting was called, at which the whole of the council were present, and a petition of a different nature was adopted by a large majority; so that it was clear that the present petition was the petition of a very small minority. When the question came before the House upon a motion, he would state his views upon the subject. Till then a discussion would only be irregular.
§ The Petition to lie on the Table.