HC Deb 20 August 1833 vol 20 cc794-6
Mr. Blamire

rose, to propose the second reading of the Tithes (Stay of Suits) Bill. He wished that the hon. and learned Solicitor General had taken on himself the task of introducing this measure. He knew that it was a difficult and delicate thing to legislate on such a subject, and he hoped, that whatever defects of detail might be found in his Bill, the House would not on that account throw it out, but would join with him in the attempt to amend them. He was convinced, that the consequences of the evil for which this Bill was to provide a remedy would be most mischievous to the cause of religion, good order, and morality. The clergy said, they had been driven to this step by the Government themselves. He did not exactly understand that; but of this he was sure, that the proceedings which he now sought to stay would produce such an effect all over the country, as to indispose the people properly to receive a fair and equitable measure for a general tithe composition. It had been heretofore customary, when plaintiffs proceeded for the recovery of tithes, that a few cases were selected, the decision upon which was considered to be binding upon the whole; but it had unfortunately happened that, by the Act passed last year commonly called Lord Tenterden's Act, no plaintiff could recover for tithes due, unless the proceedings were commenced, as against every individual party, within a certain period. In consequence of this Act, in Kendal, there had been 1,500 suits entered for tithes, and ten individuals were included in each suit; and in the county of Cumberland, as many as 150 persons were named in each suit. By this system an immense expense was entailed, and it was the bounden duty of the House to take some steps to check that expenditure. He should propose by this Bill to stay all proceedings begun since the commencement of Lord Tenterden's Act to the end of next Session, and to provide that in all suits entered of ten persons each, only two should be considered as necessary parties, the others to be bound by the decision in that case. In the other cases, in the parishes of Cumberland, he should propose a similar rule to be applied. It would be a saving of expense to all parties. He proposed this, because, although he was aware that actions on policies of insurance were consolidated, he knew of no precedents of that sort with regard to actions for tithes. He again declared, that it was difficult to legislate on this subject at all, and that legislation of the nature he now proposed could only be justified, as in this case it was, by strong necessity.

The Bill read a second time.

On the question that it be committed,

Mr. Lynch

was understood to say, that the object of the Bill, so far as it went to stop litigation, might seem to be good; but that its effect would be to deprive the parties concerned of all remedy whatever. An unjust clamour had been raised as to the number of suits instituted. The fact, that they were so numerous was not owing to the clergy, but to the provisions of the Bill of last year, which had rendered them absolutely necessary.

The Solicitor General

said, that he had heard nothing of clamour raised against the clergy—he had heard of regret—he had expressed regret at these proceedings, and he did so again. As a friend to the Church, he deplored to hear that 1,500 suits had been instituted in one parish alone. If they were allowed to be proceeded with, the consequences would be most lamentable; tithes would become odious; payment of them might be suspended, and all hopes of a just composition would be at an end. He was firmly of opinion, that tithes were as-much property as any other thing, and ought to be protected. The setting aside of a long-established modus was a calamity, for the land in such a parish had been bought and sold over and over again under it. The tithes, if impropriate, had also been bought and sold, and by setting aside a modus, the tithe-owner would get what he had not bought, and the land-owner would no longer have what he had honestly paid for.

Sir Edward Knatchbull

earnestly wished, that some general measure should be speedily introduced to set the question of tithes at rest. As to this Bill, he regretted the hon. Member (Mr. Blamire) had not brought it forward much earlier, and that he had not sooner moved for the returns he had moved for last night respecting the number of suits commenced for the recovery of tithes. On the present occasion, the hon. and learned Gentleman opposite (the Solicitor General), as on some others as he thought, had gone a little further than, from his high station, he was justified in going. That hon. and learned Gentleman had said, that, in Kendal parish alone, no less than 1,500 actions had been commenced for the recovery of tithes, whereas it appeared there were but 150 actions, although against 1,500 persons. Certainly 150 actions were a great many; but, let it be recollected, that the clergy had no alternative than that of either bringing the actions, or abandoning their right to tithes. He was not prepared to say, that some Bill, similar to the present, was not called for; but he thought it would be much better that Ministers should take upon themselves the responsibility of bringing in some general measure to regulate the system of tithes, and that, in the meantime, all actions should be postponed, reserving to parties interested their present rights, until the subject was set at rest by Parliament. That would do more than anything else to quell the angry feelings which the bringing of so many actions had created.

The Bill to be committed.