BOARDS OF STAMPS AND TAXES. (Hansard, 16 August 1833)

§ Lord Granville Somerset
was sorry to be obliged to call the attention of the House to the consolidation of the Boards of Stamps and Boards of Taxes. He did not object to their consolidation, nor to any saving which could be effected by such an arrangement; but he was confident, from the papers laid before the House, that the saving might have been much more extensive than it had been. He was of opinion, that, in all consolidations of departments, there should be one invariable rule, viz., that if the persons in those departments were fit for their public, duties, fresh and inexperienced persons should not be introduced. But, in the present instance, setting aside the claims of the old officers, Government had appointed an individual (Mr. John Wood) who was never before in the public service. There were the Chairmen of the 716 two late Boards (and to those he would confine himself), who had long filled their offices with the greatest credit to themselves. One (Mr. Mitford) had held the situation for thirty-six years, and was still in the enjoyment of health and vigour of mind and body, and would still be as serviceable as any other person could be. His appointment by the late Lord Liverpool was against his own wishes, but he was selected by that noble Lord for his great experience and knowledge of business. On what grounds, then, was he superannuated? It might be said there would be an objection by Mr. Mitford to serve under Mr. Thornton, the Chairman of the other department, or vice versa; but would the noble Lord (Althorp) deny, that a correspondence had taken place with the Treasury upon that very subject, and that Mr. Mitford had expressed his unwillingness to retire? Even if he had wished to retire, why was the public to pay so largely for the arrangement? His superannuation allowance was not beyond his merits, but it was enormous, and one that, from the present state of his health, he was likely very long to enjoy. The noble Lord, to effect this arrangement, had made the public pay 840l. a-year more than they would otherwise have had to pay, besides having an inexperienced individual appointed to perform the duties. He feared there must have been some unexplained anxiety, on the part of his Majesty's Ministers, to get rid of old officers and appoint new ones. The papers which had been produced in consequence of the Motion he had made, did not contain the replies to some of the queries which had been put by the Treasury, and, therefore, he (Lord G. Somerset) was left in the dark as to the motives by which the Government had been actuated, and as to whether the thing had been done in concurrence with the feelings of Mr. Mitford. It was curious, that the instant Mr. Mitford was put on the superannuation list, he received an application from another department, and, for aught he knew, was now receiving another salary for less onerous duties.

§ Lord Althorp
said, that the savings effected were not confined to the consolidation of the chief Boards, but were much larger, by the consolidation of the collection of taxes, under the same Board. He begged to say, that the replies to which the noble Lord had referred, as being withheld, were entirely confidential communications. He had recommended Lord Grey to select

Mr. Wood
, not because he was a supporter of Ministers, for no man could say that gentleman's conduct had been at all subservient to their purposes,—but he had recommended his selection on account of his consistency of conduct, general ability, and because, although not following his Majesty's Government, he possessed their most entire confidence. In consolidating the Boards, the Government had not only to calculate the amount of saving which might be made directly in salaries, but also whether the persons to be appointed were most likely to effect the general savings in the most efficient manner. It had been proposed to Mr. Mitford, that he should remain in the situation with the same salary as he had received before; but it was necessary that the person at the head of the Board should be in the habits of confidential communication with the Government. He concurred in the encomiums passed by the noble Lord on Mr. Mitford; but he should do very wrong if he were not also to award the same meed of praise to Mr. Thornton, who had also retired. No man was more ready than that gentleman in promoting the wishes of the Government. It was not for the purpose of acquiring any patronage Mr. Wood had been appointed; the Government merely wished to have, at the head of the consolidated department, a gentleman with whom they could co-operate, and who was well known for his independence and ability. The saving by the change would be greater in the country than within the immediate department in town.

§ Mr. Hume
said, the question was, whether the consolidation was proper,—and whether the Government were justified in making a reduction of expenditure, from 11,500l, to 5,000l.? If the noble Lord was satisfied the duties could be performed at less expense, he was perfectly warranted in doing it; but he thought the noble Lord might have gone considerably lower. He had proposed a plan by which two Commissioners were to have done the whole duty; and he was satisfied, if it had been left to him, that he would have procured some of the ablest men in England to do the duty, and at a much less expense. If there was any one thing that he complained of in his Majesty's Ministers, it was, that they were not strong enough: they were (to make use of a word in a petition that had been presented yesterday) imbecile. He knew they had much to put up with, and he blamed them for not exercising 718 the power that was vested in them towards certain Lieutenants of Counties, who had made use of their authority, as representatives of the Crown, to political purposes.

§ Mr. Harvey
expressed his approbation of the course pursued by his Majesty's Ministers with reference to Mr. Mitford. In his opinion, however, the most import ant subject for the House to consider was, the great allowance that had been made to a retired public servant, when that servant was perfectly able to discharge the duties of his office. If Mr. Mitford was not approved of, surely he might have filled a subordinate office. If a horse was not fit to run at Newmarket, his owner might start him for an inferior plate; and, if he was unsuccessful, he would then do for a London cab. But it would be absurd to say, because he could not start for the Derby, that he was only fit for superannuation. He thought great blame rested with the Government in not appointing individuals who already stood in the pension or superannuated list, where such a course might be pursued without detriment to the public service. He was acquainted with a gentleman who had a retired allowance of 400l. per annum, and who applied to be appointed a charity commissioner, with a salary of 800l., by which the public would have been saved 400l. a-year, but was refused the appointment. Many individuals were similarly circumstanced, and he earnestly recommended the noble Lord to have an alphabetical list of all pensions and superannuations, and, before any appointment was made, to cast his eye over it, and see if a saving might not be effected by giving the situation to a person whose name appeared in the list.

§ Mr. Warburton
said, if Ministers had expelled the heads of establishments for the purpose of introducing their own particular friends, they certainly deserved the most signal censure of that House; but as, in the present instance, they had only superannuated an individual who was politically opposed to them, and had placed in his situation a person of talent and respectability, who would cordially co-operate with them in effecting that extensive reform and reduction of the public burthens which had been so loudly called for, he thought they ought to receive the approbation of all parties; and be contended it was quite impossible they could do anything else, in justice to themselves, than appoint an individual for that purpose in whom they had the most implicit confidence.