Sir John Tyrrell, in putting the question to the noble Lord opposite regarding certain franks said to have been given to the members of the Political Unions by a member of the Government, staled that he thought it due to the character not only of the Government generally, but to the individual character of the noble Lord himself, who denied all knowledge of the Unions, to the noble Earl at the head of the Government, and to the hon. Member who had made the assertion, and who was ready to repeat it, that a satisfactory answer should be given to his question, not only by the noble Lord himself, but by the Government. If the answer of the noble Lord was satisfactory, he would let the matter drop; but if not, he reserved to himself the privilege of proceeding further.
§ Lord Althorpsaid, that though the hon. Baronet had given notice that he should put a question to him, he had sat down without putting any question, but from the statement made by him last night, he could understand to what the hon. Baronet alluded. He wished to know whether a statement made by the hon. member for Tralee was correct, in saying, that a member of the Government had, during the period they were out of office, given fifty franks to members of the Political Unions, in order to excite those Political Unions to petition for their return to power. When the matter was stated by the hon. Member, he at once declared that he knew nothing of it, and the hon. Member then said, he had no objection, if required, to mention the name of the person to whom he had alluded. The hon. Member accordingly mentioned privately to him, that the member of the Government alluded to was Earl Grey. He, therefore, had mentioned the subject to Earl Grey, who denied positively having franked any letters at all at that time. He had also spoken to Earl Grey's Private Secretary, who stated, that he had no recollection of any thing of the kind. At the same time that the Private Secretary admitted that he might have franked two or three letters, for persons who had requested him to do so, without being aware of their contents. But he denied positively having franked letters for the purposes stated by the hon. Member.
§ Mr. Maurice O'Connellsaid, that the statement had been made to him by a Mr. Rushton, who met Mr. Joseph Parkes (a well-known leader in the Birmingham Political Union), when Mr. Parkes said, "See, I have got several franks, which are directed to members of the Political Unions. They are official franks, and are signed by Earl Grey." Mr. Rushton was ready to give evidence at the Bar of the House to that effect.
§ Lord Althorpsaid, that the hon. Gentleman must be aware that it was not usual for Members of the Government to give these official franks. He certainly knew Mr. Parkes well, but he believed that at the period in question he was not a Member of The Birmingham or any other Political Union.
§ Mr. Charles Woodhaving been referred to by his noble friend, raust positively deny that he had ever given a frank, knowing it to be intended for any Political 33 Union; with the exception, that at that time great numbers of addresses were sent to Earl Grey, which it was his duty as Private Secretary to the noble Earl to answer. But he had never, on any occasion, made use of an expression in those letters which even implied the existence of Political Unions.
Sir John Tyrrellsaid, he hoped that the noble Lord would not think, that he was going too far when he stated his intention, notwithstanding the explanation given, of persevering in his Motion. He would, however, do so, because he thought the denial of the Government of the statement made to the hon. member for Tralee, involved the character of a gentleman of respectability, who was a barrister. He would take the opportunity, too, of asking whether a report current was true—that one of the members of the Government was a member of a Political Union? He did not know but he might go further, and move for a return of all the members of his Majesty's Government who were members of Political Unions. The hon. Baronet concluded by moving that Messrs. Parkes and Rushton be examined at the Bar of the House to-morrow.
An Hon. Membersaid, that it appeared to him nothing more nor less than a cock and a bull story, the foundation for which was mere hearsay: he had never heard so frivolous or ill-founded a charge. If the House paid any serious or lengthened attention to it, they would not only be deservedly laughed at by the whole country, but the people would have good reason for making a serious complaint that the time of the House was occupied in this ridiculous and reprehensible manner, when affairs of such moment ought to be under discussion.
§ Mr. O'Connelldid not see how this, if it were true even, could be called a charge against Government, for it appeared to him that if they had been in any way instrumental in raising the Political Unions, or had given those Unions any information on which to act, he thought the Ministers had done a very wise and meritorious thing, for it was owing to the Unions that Reform had been carried. The Motion had only been brought forward for the purpose of showing that, whereas political agitation was stirred up here by responsible persons, the same sort of political agitation, and those who stirred it up, in Ireland, were hunted down and utterly excommunicated.
§ Lord Althorpsaid, he did not believe what had been asserted; but true, or not, he put it to the House whether there were any grounds for going into the matter, and examining witnesses, because if the whole of the circumstances stated were perfectly true, it would be ridiculous to found on them a charge against the Government.
§ Mr. Robert Palmerthought, that the explanation which had been given was perfectly satisfactory. He did not see how Gentlemen who gave blank covers could be responsible for their contents; and this appeared to be the present case. He trusted the hon. Baronet would not press his Motion.
§ Sir John Tyrellcertainly would not press his Motion against what appeared to be the opinion of the House; but he protested against the interpretation which had been put upon his motives. He would only say, that there appeared to him a very great difference between National Political unions and Conservative Clubs.
§ Motion withdrawn.