§ On the Motion of Lord Althorp the House resumed proceedings on the Third Reading of the Reform Bill.
§ Lord Althorpsaid, there were several small amendments with respect to the Welsh boroughs, which he was desirous to introduce into the Bill. It had been found that the rule which applied to the English boroughs respecting districts within seven miles to allow an elector to vote, could not fairly be acted on in the case of the Welsh contributary boroughs, and, therefore, it had been thought necessary to make some alteration.
§ The Amendments read, and agreed to.
§ Colonel Sibthorprose to bring forward the Amendment of which he had given notice. He said that he should persevere in pressing it on the attention of the House, notwithstanding any apparent indisposition to listen to his arguments. He acted from a conscientious sense of duty, and would not be deterred from the performance of that duty. He contended that the Bill before the House would not protect the prerogatives of the Crown, nor preserve the rights of the people, but ultimately destroy both, and repeated his assertion of last night, that the right hon. Secretary for Ireland, the Magnus Apollo of the Treasury Bench, was put forward on 850 every occasion to stand the brunt of the battle. That Magnus Apollo had declared last night that Ministers were ready to bear the whole responsibility of the measure; if he (Colonel Sibthorp) were not mistaken, the burthen would be much too heavy for their weak shoulders. The Budget had proved their incapacity. He did not impute to them want of honesty, but want of mind—not baseness, but imbecility. The right hon. Secretary had last night quoted the authorities of those now no more individuals, Sir Richard Steele, and Sir Robert Walpole, but he (Colonel Sibthorp) contended, that many other such names could not justify or even excuse the course Ministers had taken. He preferred the authority of the right hon. members for Tamworth and Aldborough, and the hon. and learned member for Borough bridge, to all those brought forward by the right hon. Secretary, as better acquainted with the present state of the country, and the wants of the people. He then alluded to the expression brutum fulmen, which had been used during a former debate, and asked whether compunction of conscience was that brutum fulmen? If it were, Ministers would, perhaps, ere long, find it penetrate very deeply. He contended, that distress was general, and that it had been created by the Reform Bill; it especially pressed upon agriculture, and the depreciation in that branch was at least forty per cent. Ministers, indeed, had said, that the passing of the Bill would remedy all these evils; he hoped at his next rent-day that he should find it so, for he knew that at his last rent-day, he had been obliged to make deductions of from fifteen to thirty per cent. As he observed the House was very impatient, he would take leave of the measure, by expressing his detestation of the detestable Bill. He hoped that it would meet the fate which it deserved in the House of Lords; and, without feeling the slightest animosity to the hon. Gentlemen opposite, he prayed to God that before this day month they would cease to hold office. He concluded by moving "that all freeholders whose freeholds in the county of the city of Lincoln are situated on the northern side of the river Witham, shall vote in future for the Representatives in Parliament for the division of Lindsey, in the county of Lincoln; and all freeholders whose freeholds are situated on the southern side of the aforesaid river, in the same 851 city, including the four parishes annexed by charter to the said county of the city, shall vote for Representatives in Parliament for the divisions of Kesteven and Holland."
§ Mr. Kearsleysaid, he rose to second the Motion, and to condole with his gallant friend on the abbreviation of his speech. The noble Paymaster of the Forces had said, on a former evening, that the law-officers of the Crown had been at a discount for a long time; but the noble Lord must allow him to say, that if Ministers were to go to the Exchange, they would find that they stood at a much heavier discount. He perceived that the noble Lords opposite, and their disciples at their backs, were resolved not to listen to the voice of a charmer. They had now arrived at the last stage of this damnable Bill.
§ The Speakersaid, "The hon. Member will pardon me, for reminding him that he rose to second the Amendment, and ought not to speak so vaguely."
§ Mr. Kearsleysaid, that he had carefully examined the Bill, and found that its complexion varied in an extraordinary degree; the colours were dingy brown, black, and grey, but he looked in vain for the fair. It was a nauseous pill, composed of two ingredients in themselves most venomous. Would to God he had one in his right hand and one in his left, how he would crush them! One of these ingredients was the Russell brown. The other was produced on a tree having a dark stem and a black top-knot, and was called Durham mustard. Having done with the Bill, he now turned to the more pleasing duty of gracefully acknowledging the indulgence which he had experienced from the House. Come what might of the vile pickpocketing Bill, nobody could deny that their respected Speaker had filled the Chair with advantage to the country, and satisfaction to himself. To him he would say, on behalf of himself and his friends, "Farewell, God bless you!" and to Ministers he would say, "Farewell, may you meet your deserts!"
Mr. Wilkssaid, the Amendment which the hon. and gallant Member had proposed, would have the effect of making it necessary for voters in the city of Lincoln to go fifteen miles to the poll, instead of three miles, as was provided by the Bill, as it now stood. The alteration would, therefore, be injurious to the very persons 852 whom the hon. and gallant Member was desirous to benefit.
Mr. Goulburnthought, that his hon. and gallant friend was more likely to know what would be agreeable to his constituents, than the hon. and learned member for Boston. It had been said, that the Amendment would produce inconvenience, but the electors of Lincoln were the best judges of that in the present case, and he understood they approved of the Amendment proposed by his hon. and gallant friend.
Mr. Heneagebegged to acquaint the House, as the colleague of the hon. and gallant Colonel, that he was given to understand, from actual communication with the inhabitants of the district north and south of the river Witham, that they were quite satisfied with the arrangement made by the Bill as to their right of voting.
§ The House divided on Colonel Sibthorp's Motion: Ayes 27; Noes 169—Majority 142.
§ Mr. Mackinnonmoved, "That in all cities, towns, or boroughs, included in schedule C, together with the town of Liverpool, the right of voting should be exercised only by those persons occupying houses above the rental of 20l. in value."
§ Negatived.
§ Mr. Freshfield, in rising to move an Amendment to clause 31, said, that he was actuated by the wish which was evidently entertained by the framer of the Bill, with regard to the preservation of the right of persons entitled as burgesses or freemen by servitude or birth. As the clause now stood, it might be a question 100 or 200 years hence, whether a person should be admitted into the list who could not make out his pedigree. The simple course would be, never to put a voter to the necessity of proving more than that the person through whom he derived his claim, had been regularly registered. He would, therefore, propose, as an Amendment to the clause, that the word "originally," in page 12, should be struck out, for the purpose of inserting the word "immediate."
§ Lord Althorpsaid, that the tendency of the Amendment proposed by the hon. Member was, to restrict the right of voting, and he could not give his assent to it.
Lord John Russellthen rose and said, that it now became his duty to move that this Bill do pass. It was not his intention to enter into any argument on the merits of the Bill, which had been so long, so frequently, and so elaborately discussed, with great talent, ingenuity, and ability; but he trusted that he should not be thought to presume too much on the indulgence of the House, if he said a few words on this, the last occasion, expressive of his deep sense of the support which the promoters and proposers of this Bill had received from the majority of the House—a majority composed, he felt bound to say, in consequence of what had been stated to the contrary, of a greater number of independent men than had ever supported a great measure brought forward by Government. The supporters of this measure had frequently been accused and taunted with supporting the details with a kind of blind adherence to the propositions of Government; but it was not to be denied that those who were really, heartily, and cordially attached to the cause must think it necessary to support every part of the measure by which that cause was forwarded, without distracting the attention of Ministers by pressing any particular views of their own, and thus endangering the success of the great cause itself. By such assistance and forbearance on the part of the supporters of the Bill, the Government had been enabled to carry it through the Committee little changed and not at all impaired; and they were now about to take it up to the other House of Parliament, as complete in its integrity, and as full in its efficiency as when it was first introduced to the notice of the House. He thought it necessary to say thus much, because he knew that the support thus given, so constantly and so independently to Ministers, had been given, not to themselves, but to the measure with which they were connected, and which they had submitted to the consideration of Parliament. Of the measure itself he would only say this—that, after the repeated discussions which it had undergone, it seemed to him still, as it seemed at the commencement, a Bill founded on the original principles of the Constitution, and conformable to the ancient and inherent rights of the people of England, which granted, or rather confirmed those rights to the people who, being entitled to them, were also worthy to exercise them; and, lastly, tended to 854 satisfy the wishes and desires of the nation, which it would be impossible for any authority of King, Lords, and Commons together much longer to withstand, and, at the same time, preserve the peace, tranquillity, and confidence of the country. The Bill, then, effecting these objects, and by being based on the principles of the Constitution, adapted to the circumstances of the present day, and tending to satisfy the general desire of the country, was, in his opinion, a measure which it became the House of Commons to pass, and which all who desired the safety and future good government of the country ought to wish to see established the law of the land. The discussions which had taken place in that House with respect to the future effects of this measure all turned upon this single point—that the opponents of Bill and of Reform in Parliament, in general conceived the Representation produced by the present construction of the House was better than a Representation of the people, and that the advocates of Reform on the other hand, conceived the Representation of the people better than the present Constitution of the House—in short, that the one party thought the present system better than the people, and the other believed the people to be better than the present system. In the latter opinion he felt more and more confirmed, and when he looked, on the one hand, at the abuses and corruptions which had crept into the present system; and, on the other, to the intelligence and love of liberty which characterized the people of this great community, he felt quite persuaded that the bringing of them into more direct connexion with that House by Representation would tend to the better Government of the country, to the purity of our political system, and likewise to a great moral change, which, so long as the present corruption in our system of elections existed, we could never hope to see established. These anticipations might be sanguine and unfounded, but they were anticipations which, he was convinced, he did not feel alone. They were felt, not in that House only, but throughout the country, and he was persuaded that there was in this the consideration, that the country, whose desire it was to see pure and good Government established, did, by that wish alone, show itself, in a great degree, worthy to exercise the power which it was proposed to give it. He trusted that 855 he had not said anything calculated to excite debate, and still less to irritate feeling. For his own part, he believed that the greater number of those who had opposed the Bill, had done so from the conviction that the present system of Government, whatever might be its faults in details, was yet, on account of the blessings which it had bestowed on the country, entitled to permanence in its present state. They thought that those blessings were endangered by any change in the House of Commons; and though he differed from them on that point, he felt bound to give them full credit for the sincerity of their convictions, and he felt now, as he always had done, that however impressed himself with the usefulness and necessity of this Reform, there was in political measures so much to be considered, both with respect to the abstract questions of expediency and right, and with respect to the practical question of the immediate circumstances before them, that he would not venture to pronounce who, at this moment, was in error. With respect to the expectations of the Government, he would say, that in proposing this measure they had not acted lightly, but after much consideration, which induced them to think, a year ago, that a measure of this kind was necessary, if they meant to stand between the abuses which they wished to correct, and the convulsions which they desired to avoid. He was convinced that if Parliament should refuse to entertain a measure of this nature, they would place in collision that party which, on the one hand, opposed all Reform in the Commons House of Parliament, and that which, on the other, desired a Reform extending to universal suffrage. The consequence of this would be, that much blood would be shed in the struggle between the contending parties, and he was perfectly persuaded that the British Constitution would perish in the conflict. I move, Sir, that this Bill do pass.
Mr. Goulburnsaid, after the observations of the noble Lord, he rose to avail himself of this last opportunity of doing that, with respect to those Gentlemen who had opposed the measure, which the noble Lord had done with respect to the supporters of it. He should do great injustice to his own feelings, if he forbore to avail himself of that occasion of expressing the sense which he felt of the assiduity, independence, and talent displayed by those 856 hon. Gentlemen who had opposed the measure which the noble Lord was about to carry to the Upper House. He should feel he acted with double injustice, if, after hearing the supporters of the Bill eulogized in the way they had been by the noble Lord—he forbore to put in a claim for those who had opposed that measure—if not with equal effect, yet with not less indefatigable zeal and talents. Those hon. Members who had opposed this Bill, had an up-hill path of duty to perform; they had not been deterred by repeated discomfitures; but had maintained their posts amidst storms and angry debates—amidst the jeers and scorns of a large portion of the House; and if he were called on to give his conscientious opinion, as to which side the victory in debate belonged, he should say that it fairly remained with that party which had felt it to be its duty to strenuously oppose the measure. Nor could he allow that there had been shown, on the side of their opponents, a superior share of independence in the discharge of their duties. On the side from which he had the honour to speak, there had been, at least, as much independence, and as much pure disinterestedness as could be found on the other. It was not his purpose—any more than it could be the wish of the House—that he should enter into the details or the principles of this measure; he was contented to leave that part of the subject where it had been left by his friends in the course of this debate. He would rest it on the able speeches of those who had taken part in the debate—which had comprised all that could be advanced on the subject, and most forcibly urged on the side of those who opposed this Bill.—The noble Lord said, the difference between the supporters of the Bill and its opponents was, that the former were the Representatives of the people, and that the latter were the Representatives of themselves; but he must tell the noble Lord that in saying so, he made a statement which, in point of fact, was incorrect: the difference between them had not been between the Representation of this House, put in contradistinction to the Representation of the people: the question between them was, who were the people? The opponents of the Bill considered the term "people" to include every class in the country, as much the wealth of the country, as all other classes; that each class should possess its proper Representa- 857 tive, that the British House of Commons should be composed of Representatives from the different interests, possessing a stake in the country, and that a preponderance should not be given to one particular class which, in its result, might bear down and overpower the other interests of the State. This was the distinction that existed between the noble Lord and himself, as to the principles they had maintained. He felt it his duty to say a few words in answer to that part of the statement of the noble Lord, as it carried with it an imputation, from which he felt anxious to stand discharged. The noble Lord further said, that he supported this Bill, because it was calculated to put an end to the corruption of this House, and to the bribery and perjury of the present electioneering system. In that respect, also, he could not subscribe to the opinion of the noble Lord, for he did not believe that the system of Representation which the Bill was intended to destroy, led either to the corruption of the elected, or to the bribery and perjury of the electors. If he could bring himself to entertain that belief, he should have much less objection to this Bill than he had at present, but the more he contemplated it, the more was he convinced it would act against the general interests of the country. When he saw so great a change about to take place in the House of Commons—when those principles were about to be destroyed, which had formed the character of the present House, and a greater dependence was to be placed on the multitude than on the other interests of the country, he was not convinced that the change was likely to be conducive to the interest of the State, or to the promotion of general economy. He had thought it right to address these few words to the House in answer to what had fallen from the noble Lord. He hoped he had said nothing that would lead to a debate. He knew his feelings were strong, and if he were to give way to them, he might be led into a long discussion; therefore he had spoken under considerable restraint, feeling, as he did, that the Bill was pregnant with danger to almost every interest in the State. Indeed, the only chance of salvation which the country now had was, that this Bill though sent from the House of Commons might never be passed into a law by the assembly to which it was now going.
§ The Bill was then passed.
858§ The next question, "That this be the title of the Bill—A Bill to amend the Representation of the people of England and Wales," was carried by acclamation.
§ Lord John Russell and Lord Althorp were ordered to carry the Bill to the Lords, and to request the concurrence of their Lordships to the same.