Mr. James E. Gordonsaid, he had several petitions to offer on the subject of Education in Ireland; and had waited for some time in the expectation that a noble Lord would, ere this, have presented the petition which had been committed to his charge from Ulster, expressive of the opinion of half a million of the Protestant inhabitants of Ireland, because he felt anxious that some discussion should take place upon the presentation of that petition. The plan which had recently been adopted, however, rendered it so very uncertain when the noble Lord would be able to bring up the petition, that he considered it his duty not to delay any longer the presentation of the petitions which had been intrusted to him. It 1058 was certainly not his intention to say anything which might have the effect of forcing a discussion on the present occasion; but, with reference to the subject generally, he must be permitted to observe, that it was one upon which greater unanimity existed among the Protestants of Ireland than upon any other question he had ever known. In proof of this assertion, he could safely refer the House to the expression of popular feeling which had taken place in the north of Ireland. No sooner had the letter of the right hon. Gentleman, the Secretary for Ireland, to the Duke of Leinster, been circulated in Ireland, than the friends and supporters of religious education resolved to hold a public meeting at Dublin, in order, in the face of open day, to record their opinion, and to express, without hesitation, the feelings of the Protestant people of Ireland generally. Clergymen came to that meeting from the most distant points, and upwards of 3,000 respectable persons were assembed at it; and never could more unanimity of feeling-prevail, than was there expressed against the proposed new plan of education. He must further observe, that the Dean and Chapter of Dublin entertained the same sentiments, and lost no time in expressing their feelings to the Archbishop of Dublin Several other important meetings had been held, which had been presided over by the Bishops of certain dioceses, at which the persons present had recorded their opposition to the new scheme of education. That this feeling was not confined to the Protestants of the Established Church was evident, from the strong expression of opinion which had been put upon record by the Synod of Ulster; but, as that petition had been intrusted to the care of the noble Lord to whom he had previously alluded, he would not anticipate the discussion upon it. With regard to the Protestant people of England, an appeal had been made to them by the Protestants of Ireland, and it had been loudly responded to. A meeting had been held in this metropolis, attended by an immense multitude of persons—a meeting, perhaps, more important than any which had taken place since the time of the Reformation. Meetings had also been held at various other places; and he had reason to believe that there was scarcely any town in England which would not meet to record the opinions of its inhabitants as disapproving of the new system of education proposed for 1059 Ireland. He had not yet heard that there had been any meetings in Scotland to discuss this matter, but he had no hesitation in stating his belief, that meetings in that part of the kingdom would follow those of England and Ireland, and that hon. Members would soon be put in possession of petitions from Scotland, shewing that the people of that part of the empire disapproved likewise of the proposed plan. He had thought it his duty to make these few remarks on the subject generally, as preliminaries to presenting the following petitions, which he considered deserved the serious attention of the House. The first was from the Vicar, Curate, and members of the congregation of the church of St. Peter, Hereford, in which they pray, that, if the Legislature think fit to withdraw the grant usually made to the Kildare-street Society (which acted upon the principle of making the Holy Bible the basis of religious education), that that grant might also be withheld from all other societies; thereby leaving the education of children to devolve upon persons of their respective denominations. He had also to present similar petitions of the clergy and inhabitants of Edgeworth's-town—of the Presbyterian congregation of Clough—and of the Protestant inhabitants of Monasterevan.
Mr. Stanleyperfectly concurred in deprecating any discussion upon a subject which, from the very nature of the question, must render that discussion a most protracted one. He did not pretend to deny, that, on the part of many highly respectable Protestants in Ireland, there was a very strong feeling against the plan of education proposed; but, at the same time, he must state his confident belief, that a great portion of that feeling was founded upon an erroneous impression. He knew that his noble friend, the member for Armagh, had for some time been waiting to present the petition from Ulster (a petition which, he acknowledged, deserved a high degree of respect); and he would, therefore, say, that the occasion of the presentation of that petition would give the House an opportunity of entering fully into a discussion upon this great question, when he hoped to show that, so far from Ministers wishing for any mutilation of the Bible, or to preclude children from religious instruction, their object had been, to give to persons of all sects the greatest amount of religious education which each 1060 of the parties could receive in common. He would not trouble the House further on this subject at present, but would reserve his remarks until the petition was presented that had already been alluded to.
§ Mr. Leadermust be permitted to remark, that the most unremitting efforts had been made, and were still making, to raise a clamour against the acts of Government in reference to the plan of education which had been proposed for Ireland; but on this subject he must implore the House to recollect, that the Protestant clergy were bound to support parochial and diocesan schools. The persons professing the tenets of the Established Church had, therefore, the advantage of places of education, with the means of amply endowing them; he, therefore, trusted, it was but fair to ask the people of England and Scotland to suspend their judgments until a full discussion of the whole subject, connected with the proposed plan of education for persons of other persuasions, should be had in that House, at which time he would take the opportunity to explain his opinions, and he hoped other hon. Members would follow his example, and not bring on a premature discussion at the present moment.
Sir Robert Batesonwas of a different opinion from the hon. Member; he thought the discussion on this subject ought not to be put off any longer, and, therefore, he would call upon the noble Lord, the member for Armagh, to name an early day to bring forward the petition from Ulster. He asked this more particularly, because he had received a letter from the Moderator of the Synod of Ulster, desiring to know when the petition was to be presented. The delay in doing this, was treating the Synod with a neglect they did not deserve; although he must acknowledge the obtaining opportunities to present petitions, was difficult. He must be permitted, without entering into any discussion at the present moment, to contradict the assertion of the hon. Member, who had said, that the opposition to this newly-established board of education had been got up by clamour. He would refer to the Ulster petition in proof of what he maintained. He denied that any clamour had been excited: the opposition to the new plan of education had originated in the most conscientious motives and feelings.
Lord Achesonassured the House that 1061 he had done all in his power to present the petition which had been alluded to; and he was, therefore, surprised at hearing himself accused of delay in not having yet obtained an opportunity of doing so. As the result of the ballot, which was now adopted, was, of course, very uncertain, he could not, pledge himself to name a day on which he could lay the petition before the House.
Mr. Stanleybegged to inform the hon. Baronet, as a good reason for postponing the discussion on the present question, that the hon. and learned Gentleman, the Recorder for Dublin, was charged with a petition from the city of Dublin; therefore it would be better that the discussion on the whole of the petitions should be taken on a future day, on the return of the hon. and learned Member for Ireland, which, he believed, would be in a day or two. He did not desire, however, any unnecessary postponement. Indeed, so I far from that, he wished to enter into the I subject at the earliest opportunity.
§ Mr. Andrew Johnstonsaid, the hon. member for Dundalk, had fallen into an error, when he asserted that no meeting upon the subject of Irish education had taken place in Scotland, for he had now the honour to present a petition, agreed to at a meeting of upwards of 3,000 persons at Aberdeen, complaining of the proposed plans, being unchristian in principle, as it went to exclude the free use of the Holy Bible, upon which, in their opinions, all religion must be based; the petition was couched in moderate, but firm language, and the sentiments contained in it met with his most cordial concurrence.
Mr. Stanleysaid, he could make no further observation in reply to the hon. Member than to remark that the speeches made in presenting these petitions afforded the most complete proof, that great misapprehension existed on this subject. Of the christian-like feeling they evinced who signed such petitions he would not say one word.
§ Mr. Andrew Johnstonrose to move, that these petitions should be printed, and to say to the right hon. Secretary, that the one he presented expressed the conscientious opinions of those who had signed it.
§ Petitions to be printed.