Colonel Evansmoved for Returns, showing the number of houses assessed to the Poor-rates and Assessed-taxes, and the number of persons who had paid those rates in each of the parishes of the forty new boroughs, up to the 31st of July, 1832.
Mr. Humeregretted that the noble Lord had given up his intention of extending the time to the 20th August, as he knew that many of the voters had been taken by surprise. The number of voters would be very small in almost every place, and it would not give satisfaction to the country except some remedy were provided.
Lord John Russellstated, with respect to scot-and-lot voters, that to secure their elective franchise they must have paid their rates before the day of registration, just as if that had been the day of election. He had no objection to the Returns.
§ Lord Althorpsaid, that he had had no resource, for, after the opposition that had been offered to the Bill, what would liave been the use of allowing an extension to the 20th August, when the Bill could not have become law till after that time?
§ Lord AlthorpThe effect of that would have been to have prevented our having a new Parliament this year. I know that a gallant friend of mine has a motion for an address, praying for the re-assembling of the present Parliament; but that is an arrangement to which I can by no means agree.
§ Colonel Sibthorpsaid, that the Reform Bill was worse than the cholera morbus: the people could not get it up or down. He was very glad to hear that king of Reformers, the hon. member for Middlesex, say, that the detestable Bill (with which, thank God, he had had nothing to do) would not give satisfaction to the country. The present difficulty was only the commencement of dilemmas which would result from disturbing the ancient Constitution of the country. These proofs of the detestable character of the detestable Bill ought not to surprise any body—they did not surprise him.
§ Motion agreed to.
Colonel Evansthen moved for a return, 1286 from the city and liberties of Westminster, of the number of persons who had paid Poor rates up to July 31st.
§ Mr. Alderman Venablessupported the Motion. The Returns would be most useful, if the Government were not already persuaded of the immense numbers of persons who were disqualified, in consequence of not having paid within the specified time. There were many boroughs now with a much less constituency than they had possessed previously to the passing of the Reform Bill; and there was great dissatisfaction throughout the country, in consequence of the limited time given for the payment of the rates. The regulation requiring such payment caused great complaint. He hoped the Government would see the necessity of adopting some remedial measure.
§ Lord Althorpsaid, that he had not heard of many such cases; he had, indeed, heard it rumoured that many of the electors objected to the payment of a shilling for registration: but if that were true, he suspected that they could not set much value on the elective franchise which was within their reach.
§ Mr. Robinsonadmitted, that an immense number of voters had been disqualified in consequence of not having paid the rates within the time named. Many might have wilfully neglected, and others omitted from mistake; but as the Reform Bill had passed, he thought it highly desirable that there should be a Parliament elected on the full, fair, and free operation of its principles. He, however, doubted not that many had been taken by surprise, and he therefore thought some remedy ought to be afforded.
§ Lord Althorpreminded the House that one of the conditions of the Reform Bill—a test by which the right to vote in certain cases should be tried and proved—was the payment of rates and taxes within a given period. As to the surprise, he could hardly see how it could have occurred. Great publicity had been given to the measure. This clause had been in the Bill since December; it had been much discussed, and it had been frequently published in almost every possible way. He thought the fullest notice had been given, so as to guard against, and to leave no room for, a charge on the ground of surprise. One principle or condition of the Act being what he had described, it was not fitting that Parliament should be called upon to 1287 alter that principle of it, even though the enforcing of it led to disfranchisement. The parties had possessed the opportunity to complete their qualification. If they neglected to comply with the condition, theirs was the fault; they had only themselves to blame. He could not bring himself to think it possible that there had been surprise to that extent which some would have them believe. He, however, had been willing to extend the period for paying the taxes and rates (in certain cases) to August 20th; but it would have been impossible to extend it to September, without causing great delay in the registration, and altering all the dates of the proceedings—delay that would have rendered dissolution of the Parliament this year impossible.
§ Mr. Harveyconsidered that the apprehension which had, on previous occasions, been mooted as to the probability of our having a Parliament returned by a constituency so confined as to numbers as to render the returns something very like those of rotten boroughs was decidedly an overcharged apprehension. The cherishing any such notion would leave the House to infer that the people, the friends and supporters of Reform of Parliament, had been most supine in the matter. Now, granting this to be the case, still it was the duty of the Government to correct, as far as lay in its power, any such anomaly. But it was impossible to suppose men so apathetic. The great advantage of the Reform measure was this, that it threw upon the people the great responsibility of choosing their own Representatives; and though he regretted the inadvertency which had allowed so little time for voters to pay up their rates, and which had thus incapacitated an immence mass of them from voting, he still believed, that, throughout the kingdom, there was a sufficient aggregate constituency, and that the active exertions of that constituency only was required to realize all the benefits which were contemplated from the Reform Bill. He thought that the Returns which had been moved for, for the purpose of ascertaining what amount of Assessed-taxes was due in July last, and what arrears there were in April last, would have the effect of showing whether the non-payment of these taxes, on the 20th July last, did or did not arise from an indisposition on the part of the rate-payers to qualify themselves for voting.
Mr. C. W. Wynnthought, that a very great portion of the new constituency would be disqualified, in consequence of not having paid up their rates. It was a subject of regret that a longer period had not been allowed to make up the lists when the Bill was in the House. It might be argued that this Bill was a considerable time under discussion, and that the period for paying up the rates must have been generally known. But the truth was, that although this and other points were under discussion in this House, that degree of publicity was not given to the discussion of the details which was desirable. That was particularly the case in the distant parts of the country, where the persons entitled to vote would, probably, only see a weekly newspaper, which contained none of these discussions on the details. He was aware of the reasons which would make his Majesty's Government unwilling to re-assemble this Parliament; and it was desirable, he admitted, that the new Parliament should assemble at as early a period as possible; but if a very large portion of the new constituency had not qualified, it would be advantageous to have a short Session of the present Parliament. It should be recollected that the old custom was to pay up the rates immediately before an election, and even on the hustings, and that practice was likely to influence the conduct of many in abstaining from paying their rates. It was the duty of this House to induce every one qualified to place his name on the register; though it was extremely difficult to induce many to do so, and rather than take any trouble, they would give up their right to the franchise. Tradesmen very often said, that they had no wish to possess the franchise, and that, if they placed their names on the register, they must disoblige some of their customers. Such persons had no right to complain; but, at least, every facility should be offered to those who chose to qualify, to place their names on the register. He was quite sure, however, that not one-third of this class of persons would take the trouble to qualify themselves. The only attempt that had been made at a registration in England was by Lord Stanhope's Act of 1787, by which it was enacted that no person should be entitled to vote whose name was not in the register. He was a boy at the time, but he remembered to have heard, that in the county of Lancaster, there was not above 100 per- 1289 sons who had placed their names on the register; and it was said at the time, that, if a dissolution had then taken place, not above thirty persons would have been qualified to vote. In the next Session after the Act was past, petitions came up from every part of the country, and the Registration. Act was repealed. He regretted with the noble Lord, that Parliament did not provide for this; and he should have been glad if the whole of the subject of registration had been considered with greater attention. It was most desirable that the ground of complaint in this case should be removed, and that every inducement should be given to persons entitled to place themselves on the register. The question now for consideration was, whether the inconvenience of a short Session was not a less evil than general dissatisfaction. According to the present state of things, a new election would take place in December; a new experiment was then to be made; all the elections were to take place in two days, and he therefore would put it to the noble Lord whether it was not desirable that the experiment should be tried at a period of the year when there was not much difficulty in conveying voters to the poll. At Christmas, and especially in the distant parts of the country, a fall of snow might cut off all communication with the polling place. It would be better, under all the circumstances of the case, to put off the election of the new Parliament to the month of March, than have it in December.
§ Lord Althorpbegged to explain that he had only said he had a dislike or objection to the re-assembling of the present Parliament; but every one must be aware that he only expressed his opinion as an individual. He could give no decision in the matter.
Sir John Hobhousesaid, that he found a very general feeling of discontent had manifested itself in Westminster, on the subject of registration, and he wished the noble Lord would give him some information concerning it. The doubts as to the interpretation of the new law lately put forth, were not confined to those who were in the habit of studying the Reform Bill in its details; for he had referred the matter to an eminent Chancery Barrister in that House, who told him, upon his asking his opinion on behalf of the committee of gentlemen of the electors of St. Marylebene, that he might consider himself 1290 quite safe in telling the gentlemen that, if parties had paid their rates previous to the time prescribed by the Order in Council it would be sufficient. He thought that it was hard voters should be disqualified from an omission not arising from their wilful neglect, or from their own laches. He wished to know how the votes of the scot and lot voters of Westminster were to be saved?
§ Lord Althorpsaid, that, by the old law, all scot-and-lot voters were required to have paid up all arrears of taxes on the day of election; whereas the Reform Act stated, as the House was aware, that they must be registered, and that such day of registration should be considered as the day of election.
§ Sir Charles Wetherellsaid, he had anticipated the evil now complained of, though he had not been a particeps criminis. This, then, was one of the fruits of that Reform Bill, by opposing which Gentlemen on that side had been told they would shake the very foundation of the empire. He felt a triumph, but not an unworthy one, in thus finding that the opinion which he had formed in respect to this measure was thus borne out.
§ Motion agreed to.