HC Deb 02 April 1832 vol 11 cc1185-7
Mr. Francis Baring

moved the third reading of the Malt Drawbacks' Bill.

Mr. Horatio Ross

said, he had already felt it his duty to oppose this Bill in a speech of some length, and he should, therefore, decline to trespass on the House further than to show that he had not changed his opinion as to the impolicy of the Bill. With that object in view, he would move—"that the Bill be read a third time this day six months."

Mr. Stewart Mackenzie

rose to second the Amendment. He opposed the third reading of the Bill on the ground that it was not drawn up on the Report of the Committee which had sat on the subject, but appeared to be drawn up with the view of raising an additional revenue by imposing a duty of sixpence a gallon on malt spirit distilled in Scotland. He believed it would, if passed into a law, have the effect of diminishing a revenue which had been increasing of late years, and that in the proportion of from 300,000 gallons, to above 1,000,000 in the two or three last years. Another, and scarcely less prejudicial, effect of it would be, that, instead of a wholesome liquor being drank, as was now the case, a bad spirit distilled from raw corn would be substituted. He denied that the fraud alluded to as having been so successfully practised on the revenue was peculiar to Scotland or its distilleries; and he feared that Government would be soon compelled to retrace its steps as to this Bill, from the facilities it would afford to illicit distillation.

Mr. Cutlar Fergusson

would have thought, from the manner in which this discussion had been conducted, that the question had been made one of comparative hardship, as between the Irish and Scotch. He, however, submitted, that the Irish distillers could complain of nothing but the superior industry and skill. The Scotch could certainly produce spirits distilled from malt and from raw grain, at a lesser cost than the Irish, but it did not follow that on this account, any difference of taxation should exist; for he could enumerate articles that were more cheaply produced in Ireland than in Scotland, cattle for instance, yet he would not, on that account, propose any impost on cattle. The inquiries instituted by Government on this question, had not given rise to a single proof of fraud, and yet this Bill was founded upon the assumption of fraud. The impolicy of the measure was equal to its injustice, and it was a characteristic not only of the present, but of the past Government—to make continual change and alteration; by which men of extensive capital became losers beyond all calculation from the manner in which the business they might be engaged in was affected by alteration in the law. He fervently hoped that a time would come when manufacturers might safely rely on the investment of capital, the erection of machinery, and the completion of other arrangements being made without risk of discomfiture and loss, from some new-fangled enactments. The hon. Member concluded by avowing his determination to vote against the third reading of the Bill.

Mr. Dixon

repeated the arguments used by him on a former occasion, contending that Government had pursued this measure without proof of a single fraud having been committed against the existing law. As a question of revenue, what could be expected to be gained by the proceeding? Nothing; and the whole drift of the proposal was, to give a bonus of 150,000l. to the raw grain distillers, who would be thereby enabled to raise the price of their spirits 6d. per gallon. It was clear that in pressing this measure the Irish distillers must have an object beyond what met the eye. As to the morals of the country, which on these occasions were always taken into consideration, he would assert, that smuggling would result from this measure, and the evils of smuggling in England were nothing as compared to the evils of smuggling in Scotland. For his own part, however, he lived on the borders of the Highlands, and if this Bill should pass into a law, he, as one of the Magistracy, would not take the trouble to see whether the revenues were collected, or the contrary. The gentry would be driven to sell their interests, or else to connive at the practices of their tenants.

Sir George Clerk

supported the Motion for the third reading of the Bill; although he certainly would not do so, if he thought the measure would produce the evils predicted. In his opinion, they owed it to the fair trader, both in Ireland and in Scotland, and they owed it to the revenue, to alter the existing system.

Sir George Murray

opposed the Bill. He thought it was most unjust, and he was persuaded the revenue would not be benefitted by its adoption.

Lord Althorp

said, that if he thought that this measure would in anywise tend to the encouragement of illicit distillation, he would be one of the last to give it his support; but he begged the House to remember, that illicit distillation had not been so much put down by the allowance of this drawback, as by the reduction in the price of spirits; to which he might add, that the whole of the evidence went to prove that it was impossible, under the present system, but that fraud on the revenue must be practised.

The House divided on the Amendment: Ayes 41; Noes 82—Majority 41.

Bill read a third time; the passing being postponed, that an opportunity might be afforded of considering some new clauses.

List of the AYES.
MEMBERS FOR SCOTLAND.
Agnew, Sir A. Dixon, J.
Arbuthnot, General Fergusson, R. C.
Blair, W. Gillon, W. D.
Bruce, C. C. Gordon, Hon. W.
Cumming, Sir W. Grant, Hon. Colonel
Davidson, D. Hay, Sir J.
Halliburton, Hon. D. Rae, Sir W.
Johnston, A. Scott, H.
Lindsay, Colonel Sinclair, G.
M'Leod, R. Stewart, Sir M. S.
Morrison, J. Stewart, E.
Murray, Sir G. Trail, G.
Paingle, A.
MEMBERS FOR ENGLAND.
Ashley, Hon. H. Peach, N. W.
Bentinck, Lord G. Peel, W.
Best, Hon. W. Ross, C.
Eliot, Lord Somerset, Lord G.
Estcourt, T. B. Stormont, Lord
Goulburn, Rt. Hon. H. Ure, M.
Gurney, H. TELLERS.
Hardinge, Sir H. Mackenzie, S.
Holmes, W. Ross, H.
Lennox, Lord A.
Scotch Members who voted against Mr. Ross's Amendment.
Clerk, Sir G. Loughborough, Lord
Johnston, J.
In the House, but declined voting.
Balfour, J. Lord Advocate
Campbell, W. F. Maitland, Hon. A.