SUGAR REFINING BILL. (Hansard, 7 October 1831)

Mr. Keith Douglas
regretted that this Bill was persevered in at this period of the Session, and when the sufferings of the West-India planters had been so lamentably increased within the last few weeks. The use of the foreign sugar for refining, by the returns on the Table, showed a tendency to increase rapidly in substitution of the British plantation sugar. It was not right, therefore, to allow it to go to greater extent, before being assured that it was acting fairly, to give this preference to produce which was raised under circumstances so favourable, as to place it beyond the power of our colonists to raise sugar at an equally low rate. The noble Lord had said, that this sugar refinery had long existed, and that, therefore, it could not be attended with any greater inconvenience now than formerly, and that until lately no serious complaints had been made on the subject. The fact was not so; the law had been experimental for two or three years, enacted from year to year, and the constantly increasing importation of foreign sugar now demanded inquiry. The West-Indians, however, asserted that the foreign sugar was brought into the same market, and that by the competition thus created, serious injury was done to them. They stated that an unfair advantage was now given to the cultivator of foreign sugar, and thus an encouragement was held out 359 to the continuation of the foreign Slave-trade. The noble Lord and the Treasury, in conjunction with the Board of Customs, had taken means to institute inquiries into frauds that were practised under that system, and which had been matter of complaint. Experimental inquiries were now being carried on in London and Liverpool with this view, and this circumstance alone, independent of the appointment of the Select Committee on the affairs of the colonies last night, should induce the noble Lord to postpone this Bill till he could legislate on satisfactory grounds. He was convinced that the Committee would be able to come to a determination on the subject in the course of a fortnight; and, under these circumstances, he saw nothing unreasonable in the proposition he was about to submit to the House. All he wished to ask at present was, that the second reading of the Bill should be postponed for a fortnight. This Bill would, even if passed, be but a petty mode of legislation, which could lead to no good, and might produce considerable mischief. He would move as an amendment, that this Bill be read a second time this day fortnight.

§ Mr. John Wood
was anxious for inquiry, because he was sure that that inquiry would confirm the views which he had already entertained upon this subject. He had no hostility to the West-India interests, but he could not consent to their keeping possession of the monopoly which they had for years enjoyed in the shape of drawbacks. He believed that the West-India planters were, in many cases, suffering great distress, and he would do all he could to alleviate it. That arose, however, in many instances, from the heavy mortgages they had to pay, for sums of money borrowed in bad years of the merchants who purchased the sugar and other crops; and the interest being suffered to accumulate until the debt became large, the merchant then pressed the poor planter for payment at a time when he knew that he was unable to help himself, and compelled him to enter into ruinous bargains for the sale of his produce: by this means the real exporter shipped his goods home to the English market, and pressed the poor planter to the earth. He was anxious to afford relief to the West-Indians, but hardly anything that could be proposed would be adequate to the effectual amelioration of their condition. No inquiry 360 on the subject of the sugar refinery could by any possibility be satisfactory, unless the quantity of sugar necessary to produce a certain quantity of refined sugar could be ascertained, that is, the proportion lost in undergoing the process of refining. By this means they might be able to know by the quantity of sugar in a refined state exported, what quantity of foreign sugar was used in the manufacture of it, and comparing this with the quantity imported, be able to arrive at something like a correct result. It was clear, however, that a large capital must be employed in the experiment; and a large sugar-house must be taken for that purpose, and it was impossible that any fair experiment could be made in less than six or twelve months. The public generally were not interested in this question, nevertheless, a great act of injustice would be done to many persons if this Bill was not suffered to pass. A great number of merchants trading to Brazil and other places, had sent out directions that cargoes of sugar should be sent to this country, in the full expectation that they would be able to refine in this country for the foreign market. The sugar refiners had embarked capital in a way which would be entirely unproductive if the Bill was not passed into a law. His Majesty's Government gave no pledge to renew this Bill; but the Board of Trade, and also the Treasury, told these people that there appeared no reason against renewing this Act on its expiration on the 5th of July, as no intimation had been given by the West-Indian body of their opposition to it. The object of the sugar refiners was, to obtain the permission of the Legislature that the foreign sugar brought to this country, on the faith of this understanding, should be refined. The first bill for allowing foreign sugar to be refined in this country was brought in by Mr. Huskisson, and had been renewed, year after year, without opposition; and it was certainly strange that, although the late Government supported and carried this measure several times, yet that some of the members of the late Cabinet should join the ranks of opposition to this Bill, and support any scheme to retard its progress and defeat it. No opposition to this measure would ever have been manifested had there not been a change of Government, for it was not discovered that it could affect the West-Indians until the present Ministers came into office. The hon. Member 361 for Dumfries said, that the competition of the West-India sugar with that produced in the foreign slave colonies, had brought down the price in the English market; and that this was one of the chief causes of the great distress felt in the colonies. The hon. Member forgot that if a hogshead or a case of foreign sugar had never been refined in this country, the competition would still have existed. The price of sugar in this country not only depended on the competition in the home market, but upon the price of sugar in the foreign market. Our colonies produced more sugar than this country could consume, and, therefore, the surplus must be sent to the foreign market; and, upon the selling price of that surplus would depend the price at home, for the competition to sell, even at a fraction more than the price in the continental markets, would always keep prices level. Thus the prices of sugar produced at the Havannah and the Brazils, and sent to Hamburgh and Trieste or St. Petersburgh, would come into competition with the English colonial sugar, and the selling price of the former, as it was produced at less cost, would generally determine the price of the latter. The West-Indians imputed all their distress to the merely obtaining sugar, the produce of foreign colonies, to be refined here, and therefore, called upon the House, without regard to other interests, to put a stop to it. It had always been the custom with the West-Indians to make a great outcry in case of any measure which they imagined might affect them in the slightest degree, and at the same time they always attached a greater importance to their interests and their trade than to that of all the rest of the empire. The manufacturing, the mercantile, and the shipping interests, and even the rest of the colonies, were to be disregarded when they were in question. He would venture to say, that the trade to the Brazils had as much capital embarked in it as the trade to Jamaica. From the returns which had been recently printed, it appeared, that the exports to the Brazils for the last five years had amounted to no less than 21,500,000l., while the imports were 7,000,000l., thus leaving a clear balance of upwards of 14,000,000l. They had compelled the foreign sugar producer to have foreign ships to convey it to the foreign market, in consequence of the impediments that had been thrown in the way of the English merchant or shipowner 362 having anything to do with an article which came into competition with the principal article of West-Indian produce. During the last year, 63,000 cases of sugar were shipped at Bahia for Hamburgh, and of these 17,000 were in British ships, 27,000 in American, and 19,000 in Danish, Swedish, Hanse Town, and other foreign ships. By giving encouragement to the refining of foreign sugar in this country, our own shipping would be benefited, and it the same time no injury to the West-India interest would be done. As the law stood at present, no sugar could be refined in this country which had not been imported in British ships, so that, if the renewal of this Act was refused, an injury to the shipping interest would be done. But it had been urged, that by encouraging the sugar trade with the Brazils and Cuba, a premium was held out to those colonies to continue the atrocious traffic in slaves, now unhappily so extensively carried on. To render, however, this argument of any avail, it ought to be further extended, and we ought to refuse to take cotton, indigo, dye-stuffs, and everything else that was the produce of the Brazils. But if such a proposition were acceded to, what would become of our cotton manufacturers? As long as we sent goods to the Brazils, and that country was an extensive market for our commodities, we must bring goods back. It was said, that our trade had enabled us to carry on the late war, and would the House, to gratify monopolists, consent to ruin our future resources? The object ought to be, to make England the dépôt for all the sugar of the world, that England might refine for all the continent. He admitted something was due to the West-Indians, but before the House could come to any just decision, large experiments should be tried, with a view to ascertain what quantity of raw sugar would be necessary to give a certain quantity of refined sugar; and these large experiments should be continued for six or twelve months, or else they could not get at the truth. No doubt the West-India interest should be considered, but so should the shipping and manufacturing interests of this country, which were very much concerned in this question. It was very well known that we seldom or never had more than three weeks' or a month's consumption of sugar on hand, and the result was, that a few rich merchants could keep it out of the market until it reached 363 an extravagant price. He could see no real or solid objection against the Bill. It caused the employment of large capital—it employed a portion of our shipping, employed machinery, and a considerable amount of manual labour; beside which, there was no country in Europe which had so many facilities for refining as England. We owed many of them to the great skill of Mr. Howard, the eminent chemist, the brother to the Duke of Norfolk, who had employed his leisure and fortune in improving the arts, and, he was happy to add, had found in the result an increase both of reputation and of wealth. He had formerly been a refiner himself, though he had no longer any interest in the business, and was, therefore, so practically acquainted with the subject as to enable him to venture an opinion upon it. Again he contended, that the foreign sugar being used in refining prevented the adulteration of West-India sugar, and at the same time had a tendency to keep its price within a moderate compass. In fact, too, it was well-known that one species of West-India sugar would not refine unless mixed with Brazilian sugar, and then it refined extremely well. To withhold that supply would, therefore, injure the West-Indians themselves. If this Bill were delayed for a fortnight, it might as well be delayed for six months, to which he could not consent.

§ Mr. Burge
said, he was well aware that there was a great difference of opinion upon this subject, and he was glad that a Committee had been appointed to inquire, because he was satisfied the erroneous views of the hon. Member (Mr. J. Wood) would be clearly established before that Committee. It was not denied, that the West-Indians were now suffering great distress, which must more or less affect the trade and manufactures as well as the shipping interest of this country. But besides a regard for our own colonies and their aggravated sufferings, we should not forget, that by encouraging the growth of foreign sugar we should be positively encouraging the slave-trade. All other governments encouraged their colonies: but our Government followed a different policy. He was satisfied, that foreign sugar yielded more refined sugar than the produce of our old colonies, and this Bill must, therefore, injure, if it did not ruin them. He entreated the Government and this House, therefore, not to persevere 364 in this Bill, which would aggravate the distress under which the West-India planters were now suffering.

Mr. Warburton
could by no means concur with the hon. Gentleman, and as to the delay which was called for, he considered it would be utterly nugatory. It would be unjust to the parties if the renewal of the Act was postponed. Until the Government had correct information, and until it was clearly proved that frauds were practised, this Bill ought to be reenacted.

§ Mr. Cresset Pelham
would not, for the sake of one party, support an interest opposed to the interest of another class. Sugar was better cultivated in the West-Indies than any part of the world, yet it was said they ought to encourage East India sugar. He thought the West-India colonies ought to be protected.

§ Mr. Poulett Thomson
did not feel himself called on to go over his former calculations, which proved that the West-India interest could not suffer by the Bill before the House. In the observations which had been made by the Gentlemen who opposed the measure, they had confined themselves to the re-assertion of facts which had repeatedly been urged on the same side. He would confine himself to merely expressing his opinion, that the West-India interests could not be in the slightest degree affected by the measure before the House, and that delay could tend to no possible beneficial result to the West-India proprietors or sugar-refiners. The hon. Gentleman had contended that a greater quantity of refined sugar would be produced from East-India sugar than from West-India sugar. That he denied. In fact, the arguments and propositions he had heard for inquiry could have no other object than the defeat of the Bill. By passing the Bill to continue six months, to which, certainly, he would consent, the experiment might, in the mean time, go on, and before the Bill was again renewed, they would be able to ascertain how far it would answer the object. He made that offer, and would commence the inquiry immediately.

Mr. Hume
thought the hon. Gentleman ought to withdraw his Motion. If the Motion was persisted in he should vote against it.

Mr. Keith Douglas
considered that the hon. Member (Mr. Hume) had no right to dictate to him any such course. He had 365 brought forward what he considered to be a just and fair motion, and he would take the sense of the House upon it.

Alderman Thompson
could not, after the offer made by his Majesty's Government, support the motion for a Committee.

§ Mr. Hunt
thought, that the hon. Alderman was disposed to legislate first and inquire afterwards. He would inquire first, and, therefore, he would support the amendment.