Mr. Humein presenting petitions from the Owners and Occupiers of Land at Winterburn and Gessing, for a Commutation of Tithes, both numerously and respectably signed, observed, that it was time for the House to attend to the subject, since it excited so much attention out of doors. When the tithes were felt as a grievance in England, it was not to be wondered at that they were regarded by the Irish as a monstrous oppression. In Winterburn, the sum levied for tithes had been raised within a few years from 300l. to 1000l. a year. In that parish, the tithes and poor-rates exceeded 16s. per acre. He was sure, if something were not done to reform the tithe-system, the Church Establishment would fall into general disrepute.
§ Colonel Tyrrelldeprecated the hon. member for Middlesex entering into such discussions on the presentation of petitions. He should like to see a measure of commutation if it proceeded from any other Member. If it came from the hon. member for Middlesex, he should regard it with mistrust.
§ Mr. John Campbellhoped, that his Majesty's Ministers would take up the subject of commutation. He took that opportunity of saying, that he could not conceive that there was any difference as far as commutation was concerned between lay and ecclesiastical impropriations.
Sir Robert Ingliswould on that, and every occasion, repeat, that tithes were as much property as any other species of income.
§ Mr. Benetthad no wish to deprive the Church of any property, but he conceived that a commutation would be advantageous to all parties.
§ Mr. D. W. Harveywas surprised that any man who was a friend to the Church should contend for tithes. He had a petition to present from a parish of Essex, signed by twenty-four persons, who used, either as owners or tenants, 1,200 acres. The average rack-rent was 20s. per acre, and they had to pay 8s. an acre to an absent Rector. A Curate attended three parishes, and performed divine service in their parish once in three weeks; was not that enough to disgust these people with the Church of England? That Church took tithes to the amount of 3,000,000l. a year at least, though he believed they might be estimated at 5,000,000l. When it was said that these were a sacred spe- 606 cies of property, he must reply, that they were given for the payment of religious services, and when not appropriated to that, they ought to cease. On these principles, what claim could the Rector he had before alluded to have on the tithes of a parish he never visited. The present method of paying the clergy was not at all calculated to promote harmony between them and their flocks, and the well-being of the Church itself required that some reformation should speedily take place.
Mr. Nicholson Calvertsuggested, that the subject should be discussed by a formal motion, not in presenting petitions.
§ Petitions laid on the Table.
§ Mr. Hume, in moving that they be printed, declared that he was not an enemy to the Church, but those were who sought to preserve the abuses under which all its virtues and even its utility were totally stifled. Parliament had a right to regulate the affair of the Church, and he hoped that Parliament would exercise that right in appropriating its property so as to adapt it more than at present to promote the public welfare.
§ Colonel Tyrrellthought, that the remarks made by the hon. member for Middlesex and by the hon. member for Colchester were not conceived in a friendly spirit towards the Church. Before they made their attacks they ought to give notice, so that those interested in defending the Church might be prepared.
§ Petition to be printed.