REFORM BILL. (Hansard, 15 December 1831)

§ Mr. Croker
begged to ask a noble Lord opposite, whom he saw at that moment in his place, a question relating to the Reform Bill. In bringing in that Bill, the noble Lord had stated, that it was formed upon a new principle, and that that principle was now found in a list of 150 boroughs, which had the lowest amount of houses, and paid the smallest share of assessed taxes. The noble Lord further said, that he was prepared to lay that list before the House, together with a letter from Lieutenant Drummond, explanatory of the grounds on which the list was formed. The noble Lord spoke of other information also, which he proposed to lay upon the Table, and which had not been, he believed, yet produced. But the question which he was desirous to put, did not so much relate to information respecting the details of the Bill, as respecting the principle which was said to be its basis. There could not possibly be any difficulty in giving that information immediately, as the noble Lord must have been in possession of it before the Bill was drawn up. He trusted, therefore, that the noble Lord did not mean to propose that the House should go to the second reading without having those documents produced upon the Table a sufficient time to enable the hon. Members to examine them. He begged to ask, therefore, whether they were presented, as had been promised, yesterday morning, for he had looked into the votes, and he found no mention of such a return?

§ Lord Althorp
replied, that the documents respecting which the right hon. Gentleman inquired, did not arrive last night until the House was up. They would be in the hands of hon. Gentlemen in the morning.

§ Mr. Croker
would use his best diligence, as soon as he could get the papers, to examine them, so as to be prepared for the debate. Indeed, he had given the new Bill his best attention, by looking into those papers which had been presented, and from all that he could understand about it, he had no hesitation in saying, that the Bill of this Session was liable to more suspicions even than that of last Session.

Sir Robert Peel
asked, whether the debate was to be adjourned to the following week?

§ Lord Althorp
wished to commence the debate on Friday, and to conclude it on Saturday.

§ Mr. Croker
trusted, that the debate on the second reading would not be taken so early as Friday, as the papers to which he had alluded could not possibly be placed in the hands of hon. Members in sufficient time to enable them to become acquainted with the details. It was to be remembered, that the documents must have been a long time in the hands of the noble Lords who introduced the Bill. It must be so, for it was on the statements contained in those papers they formed the present Bill; unless, perhaps, they made it without the materials, as they made their former Bill. But, as he had understood, the noble Lord had stated, that the Bill was founded on the information contained in the list and the letter of Lieutenant Drummond, and the House, of course, must wish to have an opportunity, previous to the second reading, of making itself acquainted with the principles and details which had been received from that gentleman.

§ Lord Althorp
The right hon. Gentleman chooses to say, that the Bill was founded on those documents; no such thing. The schedule was founded on them. So far from saying, that they furnished the principle of the Bill, my noble friend actually stated, that the information came so late, that he was not certain but that one or two boroughs had been inserted incorrectly.

§ Mr. Croker
thought, that he could confute the noble Lord, even by his own assertion. The House would please to observe that, contrary to the five other Reform Bills of his Majesty's Ministers, the new Bill had—instead of a blank to be afterwards filled up with the number of the boroughs to be disfranchised—the words "fifty-six" printed in the Bill. Now that proved, that the exact state of all the boroughs had been examined by the noble Lords, and that, in their judgments, there were fifty-six boroughs which fell exactly within the rule, whatever it should turn out to be, that they had adopted. The information upon which that rule and that number of fifty-sis had been thus adopted, and made an integral and vital part of the Bill, must therefore have been, for some time, in possession of Ministers, and he (Mr. Croker) complained that the House was to be called upon to pledge itself to the most important provisions of the whole Bill, while the information on which they were founded was wilfully, as it seemed to him, kept from its knowledge.