SUPPLY—PRINTING PROCLAMATIONS. (Hansard, 31 August 1831)

§ Mr. Spring Rice
mentioned, that considerable reductions had taken place in this department already, and Government hoped to be enabled to carry them still further.

Mr. O'Connell
desired to know what sum was charged for printing Statutes, and how much for Proclamations; he knew, that the charge for the former must vary considerably, This year the account ought to be small, as he understood Proclamations were not to be printed in country newspapers.

Mr. Stanley
said, that in 1830 the expense was 5,000l., and the charges had now been reduced as much as possible; so much so, that some inconvenience had been felt at the limited number of Statutes printed. Proclamations must be printed in country newspapers, which was frequently the only way many persons heard of them.

Mr. O'Connell
said, that considerable patronage was exercised as to the papers in which the Proclamations were published; he should suggest they should all be inserted in the Gazette, and then allow them to appear in other papers without the advertisement duty being charged.

§ Mr. Spring Rice
said, a Committee of last year had made the same suggestion. Patronage of the kind spoken of he agreed was very improper. In all the 942 Treasury advertisements, the chief object kept in view was, to give them the most extensive circulation possible.

Mr. Hume
said, the profits of the Gazette appeared to amount to 1,680l.; he wished to know what became of the money?

Mr. Stanley
remarked, in reply, that that sum was handed to the compiler of the Gazette, who held his office by Patent, and it was now under consideration, whether that office could not be got rid of and the money saved.

Mr. Hume
said, that great saving could be made in printing the Statutes, by allowing them to be printed at the Stationery-office here, which could do the work at one-third of the expense charged in Ireland. If there was one act more inconsistent with good government than another, it was having the promulgation of the laws attended with so much expense, that few persons could know of the laws made, while all were held responsible for a breach of them. The King's printer in Ireland charged 3d. a-sheet for the Statutes, when any other printer would be glad to sell them for 1¼d. a-sheet. He recommended the example of the United States to be followed, where every Statute was printed in the newspapers.

§ Mr. Spring Rice
said, he knew of no difficulty which prevented the Statutes being printed in the newspapers. The Reform Bill had appeared in most of them; but the mass of legislation was so great, it could never fully appear by this method, and they must have authorized copies to be received as evidence.

§ Mr. Ruthven
said, the number of copies of the Statutes printed for Ireland was not sufficient, and great inconvenience was often felt by the magistracy for the want of them.

Mr. O'Connell
said, the recommendation of the Committee, to insert Proclamations in the Dublin Gazette only, ought to be attended to. Newspapers would be sure to copy all that was interesting to their readers.

Mr. Stanley
said, there were occasions in which it was necessary to insert Proclamations in the provincial newspapers. The Government, therefore, ought not to be confined to the Dublin Gazette alone.

Mr. Hume
said, there appeared still some longing for the abuses of the old system. It was in evidence, that Proclamations 943 of importance to the north of Ireland were published in the southern newspapers, where they were of no importance, for the sake of patronage. He desired to know how much of this vote was for Proclamations only.

Mr. Stanley
said, it was impossible to give a distinct answer to the question. Last year the charge was 1,520l.; the remainder was for the printing of the Statutes, and for Proclamations in the Gazette. The reduction this year, as compared with the last, was about 800l.

Mr. Hume
proposed to diminish this grant by 1,300l., which was the sum estimated as likely to be paid for the insertion of Proclamations in the newspapers; and moved an Amendment to that effect, which having been put,

§ Mr. Spring Rice
said, that if they adopted the course of inserting proclamations in the Dublin Gazette only, they must take measures to give that paper a wider circulation, which would be attended with much expense. The Government merely wanted time to arrange the most economical manner of doing the business properly. Let the grant, therefore, be conceded this year, and see how it was expended, when, if there was any abuse, it could be rectified next year.

Mr. O'Connell
suggested to Mr. Hume the propriety of reducing his proposition to reduce the grant to 1,000l.

Mr. Hume
said, that his objection to this grant was not to the money amount of it, but to the principle involved in it. If he could get a pledge from the Government that they would publish their Proclamations in the Dublin Gazette alone, he would not object to grant them the amount of this vote.

Mr. Stanley
said, that he could not give such a pledge as the hon. Member seemed to require. He would, however, pledge the Government to this: that when they published any proclamation in the provincial newspapers, the Publication should be in those newspapers, without regard to their politics, which had the largest circulation in those parts of the country to which the Proclamation more particularly related. The publication, too, of the Proclamation should be considered as an exception from the general rule of the Government, and should be justified by its particular circumstances alone.

Mr. Hume
said, he had no wish to bind 944 Ministers down too strictly, and, very probably there might be Acts of Parliament which required to be inserted in local newspapers: all he required was, a distinct acknowledgment that the abuses should cease, which having obtained, he begged leave to withdraw his Amendment.

Mr. O'Connell
said, he also felt satisfied with the acknowledgment given, and would make no further opposition to the vote.