STATE OF NEWFOUNDLAND. (Hansard, 11 May 1830)

§ Mr. Robinson
said, he rose, in pursuance of the notice he had given, to move for a Committee of Inquiry into the state of the Colony of Newfoundland. He would not trouble the House if he did not feel the subject to be of considerable importance, and worthy of the serious consideration of Parliament. There was, he believed, no one of our Colonies of which the condition was so little known as that of Newfoundland, though the Members of that House legislated for it. The few Acts of Parliament brought into that House for the regulation of its affairs, were concocted at the Colonial Office, proposed by some individual connected with the Colonial Department, and passed into laws by those majorities which the Ministers could always command. They were introduced probably at a late hour, and hurried through the House without explanation or remark. Under such circumstances he had a right to claim the attention of the House while he stated the complaints of the inhabitants of Newfoundland. They complained, and he thought they had a right to complain, of the line of policy which had been pursued by the Government of this country 581 towards that colony fore long series of years. It was one of the oldest colonies in our possession, and though of that importance which should entitle it to a well regulated and proper administration of its affairs, they had for a long period been conducted in a manner which was any thing but calculated to promote the prosperity of that island. Newfoundland had been long regarded as a fief of the Admiralty, and a naval officer was from time to time sent out there to administer its affairs. He was allowed to remain but a short time, and was recalled to make room for some other naval officer; and in consequence of this species of management, though no one of our colonial settlements possessed greater natural advantages than Newfoundland, yet there was not one that had made so little progress in population, in wealth, and he might add in civilization. In fact, the resources, the wealth, and the population of the colony had latterly declined; and if the House looked to the state of our fisheries there, it would find that we had been less successful than the French and the Americans. These were some of the reasons which induced him to bring the state of the colony under the consideration of Parliament. He wished to satisfy the House, that the system of policy pursued towards this island for many years past, had been calculated to retard its improvement, and cripple its resources. The Government for many years had treated Newfoundland as a moveable fishery; the governors and other official individuals sent out had been left there but a short period, and the few Acts of Parliament passed for the colony had been calculated to diminish its prosperity as a settlement, with a view to make the Newfoundland trade a nursery for seamen. Notwithstanding, however, that the policy of our Government had been directed to prevent persons from settling permanently in Newfoundland, a large population had grown up there, amounting to upwards of 90,000 persons, and consisting of Irishmen, Scotchmen, individuals from this country, and their descendants. In accordance with the policy he had mentioned, the naval governors generally received instructions, in some instances to compel parties who were desirous to settle there permanently, to return to this country; and in others, to prevent them from erecting buildings for the purpose of taking up their residence 582 there. In this manner individuals had been prevented from settling in Newfoundland. Such a system of policy had not been adopted towards any other colony in our possession in that quarter of the globe, and why it had been pursued towards Newfoundland no man could probably tell. He wished to persuade the House to institute an inquiry, in order that justice might be done to the people of that island, who had many and well-founded reasons to complain. Of the right hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir George Murray), he made no complaint. Since he came into office it had been his anxious desire to promote the welfare and improvement of all our colonial possessions; and it was probably only necessary to suggest to him measures calculated to effect beneficial results, to secure the adoption of them. Being convinced of the sentiments entertained by that right hon. Gentleman, he was anxious to direct his views towards Newfoundland, for the purpose of promoting its agricultural and commercial prosperity, by the introduction of a good and well-regulated system of Government; and he could assure that right hon. Gentleman, that he would reap a rich harvest of gratitude for all the care and attention he might bestow on this subject. Notwithstanding the unfavourable circumstances which he had already adverted to, this colony had risen rapidly of late years; but there was still an immense field for improvement. With a surface of square miles equal to that of England, and with a population of only 90,000 souls, the island of Newfoundland, though very fertile, had not hitherto raised agricultural produce sufficient for the maintenance of its inhabitants; and it had been indebted to foreign supplies for almost the whole of what the people required for their subsistence. The consequence was, that they were rendered wholly dependent upon the fisheries, which afforded only a casual means of support; and when they happened to fail, as they frequently did, the people were reduced to the greatest possible distress. The right hon. Secretary must be aware that in the course of the last year an official despatch was received from the governor of Newfoundland, representing the great distress, to which the population in the northern district of that island had been reduced, in consequence of the failure of their fishery; and the Governor, with that humanity which ever distinguished him, immediately 583 directed that a supply of money should be forwarded out of the public treasury, to procure provisions for those distressed individuals. It was to prevent the recurrence of such misfortunes, and to save the expenditure thus required to relieve the distress of the population under such visitations, that he was desirous of directing the attention of his Majesty's Ministers to the improvement and encouragement of the agricultural and other resources of the colony. His Majesty's Government had, he believed, latterly instructed the Governors to depart from the system of not permitting settlements there, and had sent out orders, if not to encourage, at least not to oppose and impede, as heretofore, the agricultural improvement of that country. But Government must do much more than that; it must not only abandon the former absurd and unjust policy of obstructing the progress of agriculture in Newfoundland, it must also afford to it legislative support and encouragement, by adopting a regular and proper system of laws for the administration of its affairs. It would be in the recollection of the House that in the last Session of Parliament, the Acts relating to the government of Newfoundland, namely, the 5th George 4th, c. 51, and c. 67, for the regulation of the fisheries, and the administration of justice, then expired. They were enacted in 1824, for a period of five years; they were merely intended as an experiment in the first instance; and the people of Newfoundland had just reason to complain that they were renewed last Session by a short bill, for another period of three years and a half, without any satisfactory explanation from his Majesty's Government as to their previous operation, though they had already undergone a trial of five years. When his Majesty's Ministers proposed the renewal of these bills for a further period of three years and a half, they should have been prepared to furnish the House with their reasons for doing so. The answer which the Government then gave to his complaint was, that instructions had been sent out to the Governor of Newfoundland to procure the opinions of the law officers there as to the operation of those laws; and the reply of the Governor was, that they had not as yet been enabled to form a decisive opinion on the subject. There were three Judges and an Attorney-general resident there, and it was rather 584 strange, that after five years experience of those laws, they could not give a decisive opinion as to their practical operation: that circumstance alone was sufficient to justify inquiry. In the Session of 1828 he had given notice of his intention to submit a motion to the House, similar to that which he was about to propose. It was then his intention to bring under the consideration of the House, in the Session of 1829, the various circumstances connected with the government and condition of the colony, unless the Government should take up the subject, and institute that inquiry for which the people of the island were desirous. In the interval, before the commencement of that Session, the people of St. John's transmitted to him a complete statement of their views as to the operation of these laws. Previous to the question coming on last Session, he had inquired at the Colonial Office whether the right hon. Gentleman intended to take up those Acts in the course of the Session, with a view to their re-enactment or modification, or whether he was disposed to consent to the appointment of a committee of the House, in the first instance, to institute an inquiry into the subject. The latter appeared the best mode of proceeding, as the House, before it legislated for this colony, should be afforded the means of judging in what manner legislation could be best applied. The right hon. Gentleman stated, that he was not then prepared, by the information he had received from the local authorities in the island, to say whether any alteration could be advantageously made in these Acts; and accordingly, at a late period of the Session, the right hon. Secretary introduced a short bill into this House to continue them for a further period of three years and a half. He opposed that bill, with a view to procure an inquiry into what had been the practical effects of those laws; objecting to the motion, that if those laws were continued, the affairs of the colony would again be neglected, and no steps taken to encourage its agricultural and commercial resources. The right hon. Gentleman proposed the re-enactment of those Acts without inquiry, because the official authorities in the colony were not prepared to give an opinion as to the operation of those laws, though they had been in existence for five years. But these persons might not be-better prepared in 1832, when those Acts 585 would again expire, and the right hon. Gentleman would then probably come down with a similar statement to the House; and in that way Newfoundland would be legislated for by bills prepared in the Colonial Office, without parliamentary inquiry, and without the rights of the people of the colony being at all attended to. Against such a system of legislation he protested. Newfoundland was the only one of our colonies in North America that did not possess a local legislature of its own; and it was without the power of making a road, or even beginning the slightest improvement, except it were done by the Government. Some time back he had moved for certain papers, to shew what steps had been taken by his Majesty's Government, to ascertain the operation of the present laws in that colony. Amongst those papers was a correspondence between the Colonial Office and the Governor of Newfoundland; and in that correspondence, Sir Thomas Cochrane, the governor, referred to communications he had received from the Judges in Newfoundland on the subject. When the right hon. Gentleman last Session proposed the renewal of those Acts, he did so upon the ground that it was necessary to have further time to ascertain the opinions of the Judges in Newfoundland as to their operation; but in the correspondence of Sir Thomas Cochrane, he spoke of some accompanying letters from the Judges on the subject. It was of great consequence that those letters should be produced, that the House might know why those learned persons, who had administered the laws for five years, were not prepared to make such a statement as would enable the House to judge in what manner they had operated. In justification of the course which he thought it his duty to pursue, and in corroboration of his opinions in reference to this colony, he would read to the House an extract of a letter from the present Chief Justice of New South Wales, Mr. Forbes, who formerly presided in the Supreme Court of Newfoundland. In the representations made by that learned person to the Colonial Office, as to the improvements which ought to be effected in the administration of the affairs of Newfoundland, and in the sentiments which he expressed as to the introduction of a better system of law there, he entirely concurred, and they would be found to bear out most fully the Statements which he had made to the 586 House on this subject. That Judge said, "As a general remedy, whatever tends to revive the fisheries must also have the effect of relieving the people. It were desirable, that, with a view of opening some auxiliary employment to the inhabitants of Newfoundland, every restraint upon the cultivation of the soil should be removed, and every encouragement given to the breeding of sheep, cattle, and other live stock. The necessity of cultivating the soil as an auxiliary to the fishery is not disputed, nor is there any existing law which prohibits it, but there is none to encourage it, and there is still maintained in the island an ancient opinion, that it is against the policy of Government—as if that could be called policy which, in a country overstocked with people, and distressed for food, would prohibit so plain a dictate of natural law as that of raising subsistence from the earth. This cannot be, and is not the policy of the British Government, and nothing is wanting but a fair apprehension of the case to induce its enlightened rulers, not only to remove every shadow of obstruction for the cultivation of the soil, but to encourage and protect it by every means in their power. To preserve the transient fishery has been found impracticable, to attempt to revive it would be to shut our senses against the light of reason and the lessons of experience. As a broad proposition, it may be maintained, that if the fishery were to be taken up as it is de facto, and a system adapted to the present state of things, openly avowed and directly pursued by the local authorities, Newfound land would become, what it ought to be, a prosperous settlement, subsisting itself by internal resources, drawing its manufactured supplies from the mother country, and repaying her care by a valuable trade and a numerous race of seamen, trained to her service, and ready to attend her first call in defence of theempire."—Such was the language of Mr. Chief Justice Forbes, and no individual was better qualified than that learned gentleman to give an opinion. He did not mean to enter into a statistical account of Newfoundland, but to prove the importance of the trade of the island, he would merely state, that 851 vessels had entered the ports of Newfoundland in 1827, and that 400 registered vessels were employed in. the fishery alone. There were probably also between 3,000 and 4,000 boats, employing on the whole about 10,000 sea- 587 men. The importance of removing any thing that impeded the improvement of such a colony was manifest. That colony was, besides, one which imposed no tax on the people of this country in the shape of protection for produce, like the West Indies or Canada. The fish, which formed their chief article of export, were sent, to the markets of the south of Europe, and to the West Indies, and but little came here for our consumption. The colony was, therefore, no burthen to us; its trade was deserving of protection, for it employed a large quantity of British capital. He did not know that he was called on to point out the precise measures which the Government ought to adopt, further than to affirm, that it ought to inquire in the first instance; but he thought measures might be taken to procure a more favourable admission for the produce of Newfoundland into foreign markets. Salt fish paid an import duty of 100 per cent in most of the countries of the south of Europe, and in some of them still higher duties were levied. Now he thought Government might procure a reduction of these duties, which would be equally advantageous to the people of those countries, and to the inhabitants of Newfoundland. He knew, for example, that the Neapolitan Minister, M. de Medici, was well disposed to make such a reduction had the matter been pressed when the duties on Italian produce were lowered in this country. The colonists had now to complain also of the conduct of Government with respect to the limits within which the French were permitted to fish. The portion of the coast to which they were permitted to have free access for that purpose was the best portion of it, and the liberty they enjoyed was conceded by the Treaty of Paris, made on the restoration of the Bourbons. The people of Newfoundland did not want to exclude the French, but there wore doubts whether the right thus claimed by them were permissive only, or exclusive. The fish were migratory, and they had abandoned what were formerly the best stations belonging to the British, and were now found in great abundance on the French grounds, to which, though they were conceded to them by us, they would not allow our people to have access. The Chamber of Commerce of St. John's, Newfoundland, made a report on August 5th, 1829, on this subject, and in that the Chamber said, 588 "that in the course of last autumn it took occasion to inquire whether his excellency the Governor would sustain British vessels in fishing upon that part of the coast commonly denominated the French coast, or if he would order their removal? In reply, his excellency caused the Society to be informed, that he was not prepared to protect any British vessels in fishing on the coast in question: at the same time his excellency had no instruction to direct their removal; but recommended that before the fishery be resumed, the parties proposing to do so should previously communicate with his Majesty's Government. In concordance with the recommendation of his excellency, the Chamber prepared a petition which was addressed to the right hon. Sir George Murray, and forwarded to him, through the Governor, so long ago as the 6th of January last; but up to the present time no answer has been returned, and the Chamber remains ignorant of the intentions of his Majesty's Government on this important point." In consequence of not receiving an answer, the Chamber sent him a copy of the petition. He wrote to the right hon. Gentleman to know what were the views of the Government with respect to that Treaty, and the answer, though most courteous and proper in every other respect, surprised him exceedingly by the declaration that the Government did not know what construction to put upon the 14th Article of the Treaty. The government of Newfoundland thought the right of the French was only permissive, and that was his opinion. What then made the Government at home hesitate so much about it, when the settlement of it was of so much importance? Whichever way the question were decided, it ought undoubtedly to be promptly settled; and were the government of the United States in the place of our Government, it would soon bring the question to a conclusion. Again, the inhabitants of Newfoundland had to complain that their interests were sacrificed by the convention concluded with America in 1818, and sacrificed in spite of their earnest prayers, that the Government would not give up, as it did, our most valuable fishing-grounds to the Americans. But the American commissioners were better informed than the British; and so were able better to protect the interests of America than the interests of Newfoundland were protected. The consequence of 589 the concessions then made had been a vast increase in the American fishing vessels, which now far outnumbered those belonging to this country and its Colonies. They had last year 1,800 vessels employed, and we had only 1,200. He did not blame the right hon. Gentleman, or the present Government for this; but he insisted that these circumstances gave the inhabitants of Newfoundland a strong claim on the Government now to have their case investigated, and every relief given them which was in the power of the Government to bestow. The competition which our fisheries had to sustain was very unequal also, for both the French and Americans gave large bounties to encourage their fisheries. Last year the French government gave no less than three million francs as bounties, and this sum was annually allowed by it for the same purpose. Up to 1824 Newfoundland had more than paid its own expenses, and had contributed in twelve years 89,000l. to the Treasury of this country. Since that time, a part of its expenses had fallen on the mother country. Having entered into these topics, very briefly, however, and he wished the people of Newfoundland had a better advocate than he was, he would conclude by expressing a hope that the effect of the Motion would at least be to induce Government to bestow a little more attention upon that unfortunate and neglected colony, particularly as a new rival had lately sprung up in that quarter—the Danes were now carrying on their fisheries with so much spirit, that they had already driven us out of the market of the north of Spain. The hon. Gentleman concluded by moving "That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the state of the Island of Newfoundland."

§ Sir G. Murray
was of opinion, that the hon. Member had not made out a case that rendered it necessary for a committee of that House to inquire into the state of Newfoundland. The original policy of the Government was to make that colony a nursery for seamen. That system, however, had been altered, and colonization, though it was never encouraged, had gone on to a considerable extent. The consequence was, that there was now a population of 80,000 or 90,000 souls. The old system having been abandoned, they could not return to it, and all they could do was, to give to this nucleus of population every possible support, and that he contended 590 was done. The hon. Member had made it a matter of accusation against Government that he (Sir G. Murray) had last year come down to the House with a short bill to continue the enactments of 1824. But what was the reason of that? Why, the Governor had been consulted on the subject, and his opinion was, that those laws had not been long enough in operation to enable him to judge of their efficacy, and therefore it was proposed to continue them for some time longer. For thus acting he could see no ground of censure, though the hon. Member had imputed blame to the Government. Neither did he see in these circumstances any ground for inquiry, or any means of successfully inquiring. Of whom were they to ask as to the operation of these laws? The Judges said they were not prepared to give any opinion. In accordance with the declaration which he had made last year, he now repeated, that whenever information was received that these laws did not work well, or whenever a mode of amending them was pointed out, he would attend to the suggestions given. The hon. Gentleman had observed that Government ought to endeavour to introduce the products of Newfoundland into foreign countries on the best possible terms. He admitted the fact; but he could not see the necessity of appointing a committee on that ground, unless it was meant to be contended, and to be proved, that the Government did not obtain such terms from other countries as it ought—an inference the correctness of which he denied. The hon. Member had referred to the treaty of Ghent as disadvantageous to this country, with reference to the Newfoundland fishery. He would ask, was it fit that a committee should be appointed to criticize the treaty of Ghent? And what good, he demanded, could be derived from such an investigation? He had touched generally on the topics introduced by the hon. Member, and so far as he could perceive, the hon. Member had not established any sufficient ground for the appointment of a committee. The hon. Member had said, that in the government of this colony Ministers were influenced by persons more anxious about their own interests than the general interests of the country. All he would say in answer to that was, that if the hon. Member, or any other individual, could state any thing that was likely to promote the prosperity of that colony, he 591 would be happy to adopt it. In conclusion, he expressed his intention of opposing the Motion, because he was convinced that no good whatever would result from a committee of that House inquiring into the, best means of regulating the colony of Newfoundland.

Mr. Bernal
was of opinion, that the hon. member for Worcester had made out a case that required the immediate and serious attention of the Government. The Colonial Department was called on to decide upon some plan for the improvement of the colony, which could no longer be regarded, as a mere fishing station. If it were considered in the light of a colony, it became the duty of Government to do every thing in its power to assist it. It appeared to him that the disputes about the right of fishing on the coast of Labrador ought to be immediately set at rest. If the hon. member for Worcester could, however, get an assurance from Government that it meant, without delay, to procure some explanation from the American government on this subject, he would advise him to leave the business in the hands of Ministers. If he could bring Government to declare that these complaints should be investigated,—that they should not be laid on the shelf like an old musty record,—he would advise the hon. Member not to press his Motion.

§ Mr. Labouchere
could not coincide in the advice which had been given to the hon. member for Worcester, not to press his Motion. He thought that if a committee were appointed, it would be attended with beneficial effects. He could not see why there should be so much delay in arranging the concerns of 80,000 persons at Newfoundland, and it was notorious that no attempt had been made to redress the grievances of that colony. This alone was a sufficient ground, if there were no other for demanding a committee, and he had no doubt that its labours, if one were appointed, would be satisfactory to the colonists.

§ Mr. Hume
charged the Colonial Department with negligence in its conduct towards this colony; and contended that, the labours of a committee could alone remedy the evils occasioned by that negligence. If a committee were appointed, it might investigate many important points, and especially how it happened that Newfoundland had lost its fisheries; and how it happened that the fishermen, 592 when that took place, were left twelve months without an answer to the application they then made to Government to know if they might go elsewhere to fish; he submitted that a committee was the only proper means to obtain that and much more necessary and important information. Here were 80,000 inhabitants, who, as the member for Worcester stated, had not the power of making a road. Was it possible that those persons could be satisfied under the rule of one man? That was a subject that required serious consideration. Those persons should surely have some power over the management of their own affairs. The hon. member for Worcester said, that the Gentlemen who sat on this side of the House were enemies to the Colonies. That was not the fact. He (Mr. Hume) was friendly to the Colonies, but he did not desire to see them conducted on principles of extravagance and misrule. He wished to see Englishmen, when they lived in the Colonies, enjoying all the freedom they enjoyed at home. But the present system proceeded on a principle the very reverse of that. He hoped that the hon. Member would not withdraw his Motion; if he divided the House with only six supporters now, he was sure that he would have a greater number next year, and he trusted therefore that the hon. Member would persevere.

§ Sir George Murray,
in explanation, said, that the Governor of that colony had been put in possession of the fullest information, on the point alluded to by the hon. member for Montrose by his predecessor, the late Secretary for the Colonial Department.

Mr. Warburton
thought, that the Newfoundland fishery admitted of great extension. Those individuals whom he had the honour to represent, depended almost entirely on the manufacture of ropes, lines, and other things used in the fisheries, and it was of great importance to them, and to other persons residing in different places, employed in a similar manner, that the utmost encouragement should be given to the fisheries.

§ Mr. Robinson
in reply, observed, that the answer of the right hon. and gallant General was directed entirely against the form of his Motion. He had not said a word in answer to the case which he had made out. A committee of the House would, if not in this Session, at least in 593 the next, be able to lay before Parliament such information as would enable it to adopt measures for the improvement of the Newfoundland fishery. He would persist, notwithstanding the advice of the hon. member for Rochester, in pressing his Motion, unless he received an assurance from Ministers, that in the next year they would institute an inquiry which would enable the house to Legislate on the subject.

List of the Minority.
Althorp, Lord	Marshall, J.
Baring, F.	O'Connell, D.
Beaumont, T.	Peachy, General
Bernal, R.	Ponsonby, Hon. W.
Bright, H.	Protheroe, E.
Brougham, H.	Rice, T. S.
Clements, Lord	Stewart, Sir M. S.
Dawson, A.	Thomson, C. P.
Denison, E.	Uxbridge, Lord
Ebrington, Viscount	Warburton, H.
Gordon, R.	Ward, J.
Graham, Sir J.	Whitmore, W. W.
Hume, J.	Wyvil, M.
Jephson, C. D. O.	Tellers.
Lamb, Hon. G.	Labouchere, H.
Lester, B.	Robinson, G. R.