SALE of BEER.

HC Deb 04 March 1830 vol 22 cc1304-7

The Chancellor of the Exchequer

said, that being extremely desirous that no time should be lost in the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the laws relating to the Beer Trade, he meant, even at that late hour [past one], to move, with the permission of the House, for its appointment. He would, however, occupy the House only for a few minutes, while he stated the general principles on which he should found his propositions. The subject of granting licenses to public houses had been often brought under consideration, and sufficient had been already done towards giving freedom to the retail trade in Beer to justify the institution of an inquiry into the propriety of giving it still greater freedom. It had been shown by previous inquiries, that the present system of licensing had given rise more or less to a degree of monopoly in the Beer Trade which had produced two evils:—1. a deterioration in the quality of Beer—2. an enhancement of its price: both of which were, in effect, a severe tax on the poorer classes. Both these he hoped to remedy, but he begged to be understood as not at all yielding to the imputations thrown upon a wealthy and respectable class of individuals engaged in the manufacture and sale of Beer; the fault, if fault there were, was the fault of the law. His view was, that by opening the trade the means of consuming Beer would be extended, and that no injury would be inflicted upon the brewer, while an important benefit would be conferred on the public; and he was convinced that the apprehensions felt by many persons interested in the present system, when any alteration was spoken of, would turn out to be unfounded. He was quite sensible of the advantage of extending the sale and consumption of Beer; but at the same time, he did not mean to put out of sight the necessity of keeping over public-houses a vigilant superintendence by the Magistracy for the preservation, both of the public peace and of the public morals. The advantage resulting from opening in some degree the trade in Beer, he thought, had been already established. He, doubtless, should be told by some that that opening had ruined the interests of those whom it was meant to serve; and he supposed it would be asserted by others, that, its effect had been to increase habits of drunkenness. He did not, however, concur in the, correctness of either position. He was of opinion that the interference with the monopoly had been too limited to effect the object which the legislature had in view had it been carried further, the plan would have succeeded. The great evil was, that the alteration sent the public to a very few individuals, in any district, to procure this particular liquor, and this led sometimes, as crowds collected together, to a disturbance of the peace. But. that would, he conceived, be counteracted by throwing the trade entirely open. The committee, he would take care, should comprise in its members persons of various opinions, and who were well able to support those opinions; and he could not help hoping that the result would be beneficial to the lower orders of society, and that, sooner or later, the alteration which he wished to see effected would lead to a great improvement, both of the health and of the morals of the people. The right hon. Gentleman concluded by moving, "That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the Laws regulating and restricting the Sale of Beer."

Mr. Slaney

highly approved of the Motion, and congratulated the country upon the benefit that was likely to result from the investigation. The lower orders looked upon Beer as the second necessary of life, and the first advantage from a change in the present system would be, that they could obtain it cheaper and better; secondly, that their morals would be improved; and thirdly, that the distresses of the agriculturists would thus be partially relieved, because an increased consumption of Beer would necessarily create an increased demand for agricultural produce, which was greatly restricted by the existing system. For his own part, it appeared to him that general competition would best serve the interests of the respectable individuals who were engaged in the manufacture of Beer. If they manufactured a good article, they would suffer nothing: if, on the contrary, they manufactured an indifferent article, the public would be greatly benefitted, as they would have an opportunity of supplying themselves elsewhere. In consequence of the 'system which had been long pursued, the consumption of spirits had greatly increased. Between the years 1807 and 1827, the number of beer and ale licenses had fallen off very much; while, in the same period, spirit licenses had increased to the extent of 11,000. During that time, also, the consumption of spirits had advanced from 12,000,000 to 24,000,000 of gallons; and the demoralizing effects of this change were observable throughout the whole country. He was decidedly of opinion that the proposed mode of proceeding was preferable to any other.

Mr. C. Barclay

regretted that this important subject had been brought forward at so late an hour that it was impossible to enter into the real merits of the question. He had no doubt that the members of the committee would be fairly chosen, but he could not agree that any such investigation was necessary, or that it would be productive of any benefit. He believed that the present Chancellor of the Exchequer would find himself, like his predecessors in office, entirely mistaken as to the consequence of a change; and, did time allow, he was prepared to show that the anticipations of Lord Goderich, when, in 1825, he brought forward the Intermediate Beer bill, had been wholly disappointed. The sale and manufacture of Beer was not so restricted as the right hon. Gentleman imagined. It was by no means a monopoly; a great portion of the trade was free. Property to a large amount would be seriously affected by the change, not of the large brewers, for they were out of the question, but of a very respectable class of the community, the owners and occupiers of houses independent of any brewer. He hoped that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would note and recollect his words, when he said that the proposed alteration of the law, allowing the sale of Beer in shops, would only operate as a transfer of the trade from one class to another, without at all increasing the consumption of the article. If the right hon. Gentleman wished to induce the community to drink more Beer, the only effectual means of doing so was to lower the duty; for the price, at the present cost of materials, could not bear reduction. The real and great evil was the present amount of the tax.

After a few words from Mr. Benson, expressive of his opinion that the inquiry would be attended with advantage, both to individuals and the public, the question was put and carried, and the Committee was named.