HC Deb 11 December 1830 vol 1 cc1020-2

Lord Althorp, in moving that the report of the Committee of Supply be brought up, gave notice, that in the Committee of Ways and Means he should move for a Supply of 1,800,000l. for certain charges, the same as if the demise of his late Majesty had not occurred; and that on Monday next he should move for leave to bring in a Bill, to be passed rapidly through the House, to enable Magistrates to perform their functions after the 26th of this month, Ministers having omitted to issue Commissions of the Peace for a date beyond the 26th instant.

Mr. R. Gordon

wished to take that opportunity of calling the attention of the House to the supplementary Civil List, which added 3,000l. to the List of Pensions, some of which had been granted since the death of his late Majesty, and when, in fact, no Civil List existed, and no Pension could be legally bestowed. He found that the late Ministers, after they had ceased their functions, had granted the following pensions:—On the 21st of November last, a pension to Mary Rae, wife of the late Lord Advocate of Scotland, of 660l. per annum; three pensions, granted on the 16th of November, to T. K. Holmes of 500l. a-year; to E. Drummond of 250l.; and to Algernon Greville, of 250l.

Lord Althorp

did not think himself called upon to say anything on the subject, as those pensions were granted by his predecessors before he or his friends came into Office, and he had had nothing to do with them, nor did he consider himself bound to enter upon the conduct of his predecessors.

Sir George Warrender

said, one of the pensions was granted to the wife of the late Lord Advocate of Scotland; and he must say, that learned Lord had long performed his duty well, and had but. last year brought in a Bill which abolished many offices, some one of which would probably have been given to himself. He was confident that grant would be favourably regarded in Scotland, and he believed in the country at large; the manner of making it might be open to observation, but not from him.

Mr. Courtenay

said, it was usual for Ministers going out of office to grant pensions, and he thought the practice was perfectly justifiable, as it was making provision for persons whose services deserved it, and who would certainly have been provided for if Ministers had remained in Office.

Mr. R. Gordon

said, that his observation applied only to the mode of granting: the pensions. He thought Ministers ought to be closely watched in these respects.

Lord Althorp

said, that it was perfectly right that the present Ministry should be watched—and closely watched—by that House and by the public. It was most desirable that every Government should be watched, for the temptations to do wrong were numerous. As he was upon the subject of pensions, he would merely say, that the recent arrangements in Ireland could not have been made with any view to serve the friends of Ministers, for they benefitted persons who were not their friends, and directly the reverse. The Government had felt it essential to have persons in Ireland in whom they could repose the strictest confidence. He would not say more upon the subject until the arrangements were complete, and till then he felt confident that every hon. Member would be satisfied with what he had said.

Sir R. Price

concurred in the opinion that every Government should be watched with the utmost vigilance.

Sir G. Warrender

was disposed to watch the present Ministers with entire confidence, especially with reference to the noble Lord (Althorp), who in all the relations of private life had acquired the esteem, the admiration, and attachment of all who knew him, and whose integrity and whole conduct in public life were equally respected by all parties.

Sir R. Bateson

thought the pensions ought to be reduced. The fine example of disinterestedness and of noble personal sacrifice set by the Marquis Camden, he was sorry to say, had been followed by nobody. The Marquis's conduct had excited the admiration of the whole country; but he regretted that in the House of Lords he was rather shunned as a bad example, than followed as a good one

Report brought up.