HC Deb 07 April 1830 vol 23 cc1414-7
Mr. Hume

, on concluding the presentation of the Petition, spoke as follows, in allusion to last night's debate:—"Sir, it is not often that I trouble the House with any matter which is merely personal to myself, and I am of opinion that the greatest benefit results to the community from the utmost freedom of debate in this House. I am likewise a! man who does not care much for the expression of opinion upon general questions, thinking; it just as well to leave that to be reflected upon; and always confiding in my own intentions. I wish also to state, that no person can be more favourable than I am to the full publicity of the re- ports of our proceedings; the utility of this House, in fact, mainly depends upon the diligent, constant, proper and faithful reports of these proceedings; and upon this point I would just say, that I hope my hon. friend near me, (Colonel Sibthorp,) will bring forward the motion of which he has given notice, and in which he shall have my best support, to obtain leave to suspend the Standing Order, and to have the reporters regularly introduced and sanctioned, as well as placed in a more favourable situation for the performance of their duty; where there will be less liability to mistakes, and better means used for avoiding errors, than we can well expect under the present arrangements. What I rose for, Sir, is to call your attention to a misrepresentation of what took place here last night. I hold in my hand a newspaper, [the hon. Member did not name it, which is, I believe, as correct a paper as any in conveying to the public what passes in this House, but which attributes last night an expression to the hon. and gallant officer opposite that certainly was never heard by me. I had, I thought, paid the fullest attention to what was passing here at the time, and I do not believe any such expression was used, for it would have been that extreme violation of the decorum of the House, which you, Sir, would not have permitted from the Chair, and which I certainly could not have allowed to pass without observation. The expression attributed in this paper to the hon. and gallant officer is as follows: 'The lie, therefore, that he (Lord Ellen-borough) had connived at his own disgrace, was so monstrous, that he (Sir H. Hardinge) threw it back with scorn on its contemptible author.' I was the only person who had previously spoken in the debate, and therefore such a phrase, if used, could only have applied to me. I can only say I never heard it, and it was only this morning, when a gentleman brought me the paper, and pointed out the passage, that I saw it. I said to him then, as I now repeat, that no such expression was used; yet, as it conveys a personal reflection, and involves in some degree the character of the House, by exhibiting a violation of the courtesy which one hon. Member is bound to pay another in debate, I have no other course open than to take this notice of it. I do not mean to say that the error in the paper is intentional, but as no other person had spoken at the time than myself, no other could have been addressed in such language, had it been used. I hope, therefore, the hon. and gallant Member will say how far this statement is consistent, or not, with his recollection of what, fell from him in his speech."

Sir Henry Hardinge

,—"If, immediately after I spoke at the moment, the hon. Member had no recollection of my using-such a phrase, although he says he was attentively listening to me, he will easily believe it is very probable I could not have used it. No such expression was, in point of fact, used by me, as directed against him. Certainly, I never could have so far departed from the courtesy which one Gentleman is bound to observe towards another in this House, as to charge him with uttering a notorious and unnatural lie. What I said was, as well as I recollect, that the accusation against Lord Ellenborough, of having connived at his own disgrace was a foul calumny, and I threw back the unnatural he upon the authors of it. I used the plural number, intending the imputation for the authors of those calumnies out of doors, of which Lord Ellenborough had to complain. What I did say last night I find reported with singular, indeed wonderful, accuracy in The Times newspaper of this morning; and there I find the word 'authors,' which of course could not mean the hon. member for Montrose. But at the same time I do intend to accuse him of perverting the bearing of the evidence in his remarks upon it. There is one error in the concluding paragraph of my speech, in which I am stated to have said, when speaking of Lord Ellenborough, 'that if it could be shown he had done any thing wrong, he would be the first man to come forward and atone for it,' I said nothing of this kind as applicable to Lord Ellenborough, but with reference to myself. I knew Lord Ellenborough could not come here to give explanations, although I could. As the hon. member for Montrose always bears every thing which passes here with good humour, he will, I hope, as constantly find me doing the same, and I should be sorry if he retained an impression that I could have used towards him any expression so gross as that which he has mentioned here."