PASSAGE VESSELS REGULATION BILL. (Hansard, 4 March 1828)

§ Mr. Hume
said, that after a full deliberation the Emigration Committee had recommended the repeal of the act which it was now proposed to revive, on the ground that it had prevented the emigration of thousands to America. It increased the expense, and added to the difficulty of conveying passengers thither. Before the repeal of this act for the regulation of passage vessels, disease as contagious and distress as great, were wafted to the shores of America, as subsequently. These facts would be found detailed in the report of the Emigration committee. He saw no reason why this act should be revived; but if it was the intention of government to introduce a bill, as this certainly would be, in contradiction to the recommendation of the Emigration committee, he trusted time would be allowed to examine into and consider the measure.

Mr. Secretary Huskisson
confessed he was unable to understand the nature of those pure abstract principles which were to prevent them from interfering where the interests of humanity were at stake. He could not conceive the meaning of those general principles which were never to bend to circumstances. During the short time that he had been in his present office, a variety of documents had reached him upon the matter, and amongst others a letter from sir J. Kempt, who commanded on the Halifax station. He wrote, that during the last season the ship "James" arrived there from Ireland, with emigrants. She sailed with a hundred and sixty on board, of whom five died on the passage, and thirty-five were left at Newfoundland, being unable to proceed. The remaining one hundred and twenty, with the crew, arrived at Halifax, labouring under typhus fever. The population of Halifax amounted to seven thousand, and in the lapse of ten months eight hundred had fallen victims 963 to the contagion. Care ought to be taken to prevent the crowding of these poor people into a smaller space than was compatible with their health and comfort. All he asked for was, not that unnecessary regulations should be introduced, which must, necessarily, have the effect of throwing obstacles in the way of the improvement of the colony, but that care should be taken to provide sufficient quarters and sufficient diet, so as to prevent the introduction of those dangerous fevers which were often fatal to the parties themselves, to those employed in navigating ships carrying emigrants, and to the persons amongst whom the emigrants went to reside. This might be avoided by adopting precautions; and he might be permitted to observe that regulations were enforced in various of the British colonies that were much more strict than any that this law would impose. With respect to the way in which those poor people were sent out of Ireland, it was in many instances most lamentable. The law had no power to interfere, and the consequences were horrible. The passengers, in a state of despair, took possession of the vessel, and a melancholy shipwreck was the consequence. He, therefore, thought it necessary to introduce some measure to rectify this evil. Let a bill be introduced as soon as possible, and when printed, if any superfluous regulations appeared in it, let them be withdrawn; but some new regulations were absolutely indispensable.

Mr. Stanley
said, that if he had not been one of those who recommended the repeal of these regulations, he would not have addressed the House. Certainly, on the evidence before the committee, they had resolved to do away with all regulations respecting passengers. He was willing to take his share of the responsibility of having been a party to this rather hasty decision; but, at the same time, on the evidence before the committee, he did not see how they could avoid the conclusion to which they had come. If great practical evils, however, were found to result from the removal of the regulations, he had no objection to the introduction of a modified bill for their revival. He had lately had an opportunity of seeing the correspondence to which his right hon. friend had alluded. Having attentively read through these details, he was satisfied that some restrictions were necessary to restrain the excessive cupidity of the adventurers, 964 who speculated in passage vessels. To illustrate that necessity, he would ask why there should be regulations with respect to luggage and passengers in and upon stage-coaches? Such regulations were rendered necessary for the safety and comfort of those who travelled. Now, if it was deemed proper to have regulations of a restrictive nature with respect to stagecoaches, which travelled every day, how much more necessary was it to apply some settled rules to the mode of taking out emigrants. The ships selected for this purpose were old vessels, specially taken up for the occasion, and never used again. They were crammed with human beings, badly provided with necessaries, and the consequences were disease and death. The persons who carried on this system were left to play the game over and over again, with new victims. He remembered in one of the letters an expression of a gallant officer, who said that, though he had seen many slave ships on their arrival, with their human cargoes, he had never seen any so loathsome and disgusting as one of these passage vessels which he had seen arrive from Ireland. From reflection, and the perusal of these papers, he must retract the opinion he had formed upon this subject; and though he remained a warm advocate of the general principles of free trade, he thought a special case of exception had been made out in this instance.

Mr. Warburton
said, he had no wish to oppose this measure, if sufficient time were given for obtaining information from Ireland, and from other parts interested in the question. He considered it very unwise that they should legislate without having the requisite information to proceed upon. Certainly, if emigration was good for any thing, it should be made as cheap as possible. If emigration from Ireland to England could be effected at 10s. a head, he must contend, that the rate should be reduced from those countries to other parts of the world. With respect to the prevalence of disease, the right hon. gentlemen opposite had proved nothing in what they had said; because typhus fever, in its incipient state, though one person only had the seeds of it in his system, might spread the infection throughout a large crew.

§ Mr. Robinson
said, that, from his connexion with the colonies, such a multitude of papers had come under his observation, 965 with reference to this subject, that he had no doubt as to the mischievous consequences of allowing passengers to go from Ireland and Scotland without restrictions. It seemed to him absolutely necessary to repeal the act of last session. However desirable it might be to encourage emigration from Ireland and Scotland, he was convinced that the act of last session was productive of consequences appalling to humanity, and mischievous to the people amongst whom the emigrants went to settle. He would read an extract from a colonial paper, containing a case of a very distressing nature. The paper was published at St. John's, Newfoundland, on the 30th of August last:—"We happened, on Wednesday last, to go on board a vessel with emigrants from the west of Ireland, bound to Halifax; it contained one hundred and sixty-four passengers. The captain stated, that they had had no sickness on board but what arose from hunger, and the peculiar situation of one or two of the people. The passengers found provisions for themselves, and by the time they had half finished the voyage, their stock was nearly exhausted. It then became necessary to draw on the stores of the ship, and indications followed of a very alarming character. A short time before the ship made land, such was the desperation to which these wretched people were driven, that they absolutely insisted upon having bread or blood." Now, was there any black slavery equal to this; and could it be a matter of surprise, if, under such circumstances, pestilence and famine put an end to the existence of those unfortunate people? But such were the consequences of not extending that useful act, which had been frequently alluded to, to all the colonies, which would prevent the recurrence of such wretchedness. He could vouch for it, that such was the ignorance of those unfortunate individuals who were stimulated to leave their native country, in consequence of that heartrending distress, of which the House had heard so much, that they knew not how, when going out, to provide for themselves; and they were left at the mercy, and subjected to the cupidity of the owners of vessels, who extorted the largest freight they possibly could from those wretched creatures. He, therefore, implored the House to give their support to the measure recommended to them.

Sir J. Graham
defended the conduct of 966 the committee that had recommended the abolition of the Restriction act. They had acted correctly, on the evidence that was laid before them. As, however, the right hon. Secretary had declared, that there were grounds for thinking the proposed measure expedient, he would recommend the hon. member for Aberdeen to withdraw his opposition.