HC Deb 16 June 1828 vol 19 cc1373-80
Mr. Huskisson

said, that, although he had given notice of his intention to present a petition from the Merchants of Calcutta re- specting the Trade with India, still he did not mean to provoke any discussion on the important question to which it related. That petition was intrusted to him, he might almost say, on behalf of every British merchant in Calcutta, and of a considerable number of the most wealthy native merchants in that opulent city—persons whose skill, enterprise, and industry, if fostered and encouraged, must prove highly beneficial to this country. He would also say, that as these parties were not represented in. that House, that they came before the legislature with peculiar claims to attention. Now the petitioners stated, that they felt much satisfaction at the increased facility given of late years to a commercial intercourse with other countries, as well as with the mother country and its dependencies. They felt confident that the same system would still be pursued, and that on any occasion, when the legislature introduced measures affecting the trade between this country and India, they would consider free intercourse as the rule, and restriction as the exception, to be only maintained on some specific ground of necessity or of commercial policy. He could not think there was a doubt that parliament would take this view of the subject, when they were called on to consider of the renewal of the East India Company's Charter; because, if they looked back to the effects which had been produced by the relaxation that took place after the last renewal of the Charter, they would find, that the direct commerce between this country and British India had been more than doubled. New branches of trade had sprung up, and others were every day arising; contrary to the predictions of those who were considered to be the great practical authorities on this subject. In the same manner those authorities confidently stated, that the greatest evil would result from any permission being given to British subjects to send their capital, for the purpose of investing it in projects connected with the improvement of manufactures and commerce in India. These opinions had, however, given way to more liberal views; and it was now allowed, that the capital of this country might be employed most beneficially, in the improvement of the arts and manufactures of British India; and where such a system had been acted on, in Calcutta and its neighbourhood, a greater bond of union was observable between the British authorities and the natives, a great improvement in arts and manufactures had taken place, and those moral feelings which enabled individuals to discharge all the duties of social life were more sedulously cultivated. This country, therefore, was not slow in extending civil rights to the people of Calcutta, which they did not before possess. The natives were now competent to serve on juries; and, in proportion as they formed an acquaintance with the English language, habits, and feelings, their improvement would become more decided and rapid. He could only look to the increased intercourse between individuals of the two countries as a source of mutual benefit. The petitioners further observed, that they were satisfied that much inconvenience was felt, and much injury sustained, in consequence of the difference of duty on East and West India sugars. That question had, however, been postponed to a future period, the petitioners also complained, that other staples of India, such as cotton, &c, were, in consequence of the rate of duty, excluded from this country. In fact, they felt that those articles were treated as if they were not the produce of a British possession, but of a foreign colony; and they prayed that, even in the present session, some reform might be effected in the scale of duties. When these subjects came regularly to be discussed, he had no doubt that the utmost attention would be paid to them; and, looking to the trade with the Indian Archipelago—looking to the various new sources of trade and commerce which were springing up—but more particularly looking to the probable intercourse between India and the liberated States of South America, he was satisfied that a field would be opened for the employment of British capital, much more extensive than was imagined by those who had not narrowly considered the subject. These branches of commerce were only in their infancy; if they were encouraged the country would derive incalculable benefit from them.

Mr. Whitmore

said, he did not agree with his right hon. friend, that this question ought not to be discussed on the present occasion. On the contrary, such was its importance, that it ought constantly to be before the House. They had an empire in India, covering nearly thirty degrees of latitude, and upwards of thirty degrees of longitude, containing a population of eighty millions, possessing every variety of soil, and abounding in every species of tropical production. It was quite evident, therefore, that to cultivate trade and commerce in such an empire was a matter of the first importance. His right hon. friend had alluded to the difference of duties on commodities the growth of India, and on the same commodities produced elsewhere. Now, he had always contended, that so manifest an inequality should be remedied. He would say, that there ought to be no restrictions at all. He entirely agreed with the petition, that it was not the removal of these heavy duties alone which would open to this country a groat field of commerce; but that it depended, in a great degree, on a considerable change in the government of India, and on that application of British capital to the productions of the east, which would bring them into general consumption, and cause trade to flourish to an extent greater than had ever been contemplated. His right hon. friend had observed, that great improvement would be effected in the manufacture of East-India productions, by the agency of British capital. That would generally be the case; but there was one article of East-India produce which stood out so prominently from all the others, that he begged to call the attention of the House to it, as illustrating the position of his right hon. friend. That production was indigo, the only one almost on which British capital was employed. In 1786, little or no East-India indigo was imported. It was a very indifferent article, and scarcely any of it was called for; but, since British capital had been embarked in that manufacture, it had improved in quality, and, instead of being inferior to indigo manufactured in other parts of the world, it was now twelve and a half per cent better than the indigo imported from Spanish America. The demand had increased thirty fold since that time. Now, he was sure, if they pursued the same course with respect to sugar, cotton, and various other articles, the result would be the same. The disqualifications which existed with respect to British subjects in the east, prevented the extensive employment of British capital in that country. Those disqualifications were of a galling, vexatious, and tyrannical nature. An English subject could not proceed to that country without a. licence; and he could not travel above ten miles from any presidency, without a particular permission, filed in the regular court. He had frequently seen a notice in the Calcutta paper, stating, that it was necessary if an Englishman left India, that he should produce a document, signed by the proper authorities, declaring that while there he had conducted himself well, if he wished to procure a licence here, to enable him to return. Now, a more vexatious or arbitrary proceeding could scarcely be adopted by any government; particularly when it was recollected, that the licence was to be given by parties who were rivals in trade. The free trader applied for this licence to the Company, who were the monopolists; and who, when they came in contact with him, were influenced by narrow and exclusive feelings.

Mr. Hume

was greatly pleased that the right hon. gentleman had presented a petition, which stated so broadly and so justly the principles on which the House ought to proceed. If they looked back, however, to what had been done since the last renewal of the Company's charter, they would find that there was not one of those important principles that had not been violated in India. The petition contained two main propositions; one with regard to free trade, and the other with respect to the intercourse of Europeans with India. The rights of British subjects in that country had been violated by the act of parliament, and by every regulation passed by the Court of Directors and the Board of Control. While 27l. a ton was paid on sugar imported from the West Indies, 37l. a ton was charged on East-India sugar. The same observation might be made with respect to cotton, turmeric, and spirits. When the charter was renewed, they had been told, that, under no change of circumstances, could any increase of exports to India take place. But, what was the fact? An immense increase of exports had succeeded the renewal of the charter. In 1814, we exported two hundred and thirteen thousand yards of plain manufactured cotton, but that species of export had gradually increased until 1826, when it amounted to sixteen millions of yards of plain cotton. With regard to dyed cotton, instead of six hundred thousand yards, in 1826 the export had gradually increased to ten millions of yards—the average amount exported of these two articles alone being twenty-six millions of yards instead of eight hundred thousand yards, which was the amount in 1814. British subjects were worse treated in India than in any other portion of the British dependencies. It was impossible for any country labouring under such a series of disabilities and disqualifications to prosper.

Mr. Astell

declined going into the wide field opened by the hon. member, and which had no connection with the petition. Whether the system of government adopted with regard to India ought to be changed or not was not now the question; he would not, therefore, enter into it. But he could not hear the hon. member charge the East-India Company with prejudice and monopoly, without denying that any such charge properly attached to them. He presumed to think, that in the government of India the Court of Directors exercised their honest judgment. Whenever that question came before the House, he should be prepared to go into it.

Mr. Baring

agreed, that this was too wide a question to be discussed on a petition. When the great question of the charter came on, and also the question of the monopoly of the China trade, that would be the proper time for discussion. This question, than which he knew of no one of greater importance, had, he must say, been treated by his hon. friend (Mr. Hume) on the most narrow scale possible. It was not a question of indigo or sugar: it rested upon much more important grounds. As to the question of East-India Sugar, he believed that it had been altogether overrated, both with respect to the benefits which the West Indians derived from the restriction, and with respect to the extent to which the East Indians could carry this trade. Sugar never would come from the East Indies but in the way of ballast; and he entertained great doubts whether a large quantity of sugar could ever be raised in the East Indies.

Mr. Warburton

said, the hon. member had spoken as if it had ever been contended, that colonization should be effected in India as in Canada. Their object, as to Canada, was to send out their pauper population there; but could any one be absurd enough to propose, that paupers should be sent to a country, where the wages of the labourer were under 3d. a day? What was meant by colonization in India was, that men of capital should be allowed to migrate to India, to take mortgages on land, and to possess land. The hon. member had also argued pretty nearly to this effect—that as there had hitherto been a monopoly in India, there ought to be a monopoly for the future. Had they not constantly heard of the Dutch and. Spanish monopolies? Had we not been in the habit of throwing such parts of the commercial policy of these countries in their teeth? The hon. gentleman had contended, that sugar, cotton, indigo, and the like, were objects not worth the consideration of this country, in its relations to so great a territory as India. But, was it not the duty of government, by foreign dependencies, to increase the comforts of the people of England?

Mr. Robert Grant

said, that the petition was extremely mild and temperate. It called upon the House to consider whether the prohibitions upon the intercourse of Europeans with the interior of the country,—prohibitions imposed, not by the company but by the parliament, and also the commercial restrictions, ought to be allowed to continue. As to the intercourse of Europeans with the interior, whether the prohibition were right or wrong, it had existed from all time; and the petitioners, not venturing to point out any course for the adoption of the House, merely prayed that they would take into their consideration, whether it would not be expedient to repeal the act of parliament which enacted this prohibition; and he would appeal to the House, whether these temperate petitioners were treated fairly by gentlemen who introduced angry and irritating topics. With respect to the renewal of the charter, he was so deeply impressed with the difficulties of the question and the magnitude of the interests involved, that he must suspend his judgment. Whenever he came to give his vote on the subject he should have the satisfaction of knowing that his judgment had been conscientiously formed. He would, however, say, that this was not merely a commercial question. The interests of millions were connected with it in a commercial, but they were infinitely more closely connected with it in a political, point of view. He remembered when evidence was heard at the bar of the House, prior to the last renewal of the charter, that sir Thomas Munro had given it as his opinion, that, considered simply as a commercial question, freedom from restriction would considerably increase the trade in India; but that, looking at it in a political point of view, his mind was so balanced, that he could not declare his assent to its expediency. On the subject of political danger from the relaxation of the present restrictions, he certainly did not apprehend any danger in the first instance; because regulations might be resorted to, by which the causes of any such danger would be counteracted. But the danger and inconvenience, if at all, would, he took it, arise in future. It might not occur in our time; but, if at all, it would occur at a time when there would be found in India an extensive Creole population—not balancing the other parts of the Indian population, but still existing in particular spots and interstices in considerable numbers. The problem which would then arise would be how to adjust the differences which the co-existence of various races in the country would occasion, in such a manner as to prevent the most injurious collisions of interest? There must be some inequality; and they would therefore have one caste in opposition to the other. The history of the world afforded abundant instances of evils which had resulted from such a conflict, and from the attempt to put one privileged class at the head of another. This he believed to be the real difficulty.

Mr. Courtenay

said, that since the year 1813, he had been witness to many great and important alterations, all of which wore in favour of the removal of restrictions. If the discussion was continued, it would be impossible to get through the orders of the day; one of which would give him an opportunity of carrying into effect some of the recommendations of hon. gentlemen.

Ordered to lie on the table.