§ Mr. Otway Cave,in rising to move that the petition of the inhabitants of Leicester, which he had yesterday presented to the House, regarding the conduct of the Corporation of that borough, should be referred to a Select Committee, begged to state, that the returns, which had been ordered some time since by the House, from that Corporation, in reference to the building of a new gaol and house of correction in Leicester, had, after a great delay, been laid upon the table of the House, but in such an utterly imperfect form that the inhabitants had been unable to take any steps upon them, in order to show that a new gaol was not necessary, and that, therefore, they should not be burdened with an additional impost for its erection and support.
Mr. Secretary Peelsaid, it was hardly to be expected, that the House should occupy itself with the election disputes of the borough of Leicester. It appeared to him, that the hon. member had been put forward by a party in that place, to bring before the House all their local contests. If he saw any intention to conceal any thing from the House; if he saw on the returns any evasions; if the returns had been false; or if he had seen any of the privileges of the House evaded—he should have been ready to accede to the motion. But he saw no grounds for instituting that formal kind of inquiry proposed by the 1763 hon. member. He must, at the same time, express his surprise at the period which had elapsed since the time when the returns had been made. The petitioners complained of the gaol being "built; but for this the magistrates were not to blame. He had brought in a bill to provide for building certain new gaols; and Leicester was one of the towns included. The magistrates, therefore, could not be ordered to suspend the building of this gaol, unles the act of parliament were repealed. He would recommend the hon. member to procure an amended return; for he did not think this a case to call for the interference of the House.
§ Mr. H. Gurneysaid, he did not rise to induce the right hon. gentleman to consent to the motion, but to observe, that as the law now stood, and the bill which had been sent up from that House had been lost in the other House, corporations might make any use they pleased of the corporation funds. As the principle was now avowed, he should expect to see corporations employing all their resources, at another election, in bringing up out-voters. He hoped, however, that another bill would be brought into that House more complete than the last; and he would suggest it as a subject well worthy the right hon. gentleman's attention.
§ Mr. O. Caveexplained. In the course of his explanation, he observed, that he had not brought forward the motion because it originated with the party in the borough of Leicester which had sent him to the House. It had been signed by almost all the inhabitants. His election had no more to do with the petition than had the election for East Retford. If he had come down to the House with solemn plausibility, ingenious candour, and well-balanced cadence, and on that Election bill had declared he knew nothing of the dukery, and that that borough was under the influence of the duke of Newcastle, he should deserve as much to be believed as those were, who falsely imputed personal motives to him for the motion he had submitted. He would accept the proposal of the right hon. gentleman, and propose to-morrow an amended motion.
Mr. Maberlysaid, that as the other House would not concur with them in measures for restraining the power of corporations, it was due to the dignity of that House, that they should pass a resolution, declaring it to be a breach of their privi- 1764 leges to apply the funds of a corporation to influence the election of members of parliament.
Mr. Peelsaid, that an expression used by the hon. member for Leicester called for some remark from him. He was willing to assume, that the hon. member harboured no intention to give him personal offence; but he was quite sure that the hon. member would excuse him, when he said, that the word "falsely" was improperly used: and he now asked the hon. member whether he meant to apply that term to him?
§ Mr. O. Cavesaid, he understood the right hon. gentleman to state, that his motion originated in party feeling, growing-out of the Leicester election. If that were the case, he could not retract what he had said; because he was actuated by no such feeling. It was unfair, in the first place, to make such a charge; and, in the second, he conceived it to be falsely advanced.
§ The Speakersaid, he solemnly assured the House, that if he conceived it possible, when the hon. gentleman used the expressions adverted to, that he meant to direct them against any individual, he should certainly have interfered. He never was more astonished than when he heard the explanation which the hon. member had given of his own words.
§ Mr. O. Cavetrusted he had never shown any disposition to act in a manner personally offensive to any member. He had no intention, in the present instance, to excite unpleasant feelings. Should the right hon. gentleman say, that he did not use those expressions in a personal sense, then he would make such a reply as would, he hoped, be satisfactory to the House.
§ The Speakersaid, the hon. gentleman ought to express, that the words used by him were not intended as matter of personal offence to the right hon. gentleman.
§ Mr. O. Cavesaid, he was ready to ask pardon of the House; but he spoke in the belief, that an attack had been made personally on him. He therefore must say, that he made the observations which had been adverted to in the same sense, whatever it might be, as that in which the remarks directed to him were uttered.
§ The Speaker.The hon. member knows, that the rules of this House are not to be trifled with, and that no language can be allowed here which is personally offensive. 1765 believe, and I think the House must be of the same opinion, that the hon. member has deviated from every principle of order, and has for gotten what is due to the dignity of parliament; and therefore, if he does not make a proper concession, I shall feel it to be my duty to name him.
§ Mr. O. Cavesaid, that no person could be more unwilling than he was to offend the House; but he would ask, did not the right hon. gentleman make an allusion that was personally offensive to him? It was only because he understood that the right hon. gentleman made such an allusion that he had used the words which gave rise to this discussion. There was no one whom he respected more than he respected the right hon. gentleman; but he owed it to his own honour, not to suffer unworthy motives to be imputed to him without repelling the charge. He bowed with submission to the forms of the House, and he had not the slightest hesitation in apologizing to the House and to the chair.
§ The Speakersaid, that the hon. member did not appear to understand what the feeling of the House was. It was his duty to tell the hon. member, that the House called upon him for explanation and apology. This was the first time he had seen any gentleman display apprehension lest his honour should be injured by obeying the call of the House. He would tell the hon. member, that after what had passed, he would best consult his own honour by making the reparation which was now demanded of him. The Speaker then called twice upon Mr. O. Cave before the hon. member rose.
§ Mr. O. Cavecould only repeat, that if he had said or done any thing that was contrary to the usages of the House,—if he had said or done any thing that was disrespectful to the House or to the chair, he was perfectly willing to apologize. The hon. member was then about to leave the House amidst loud cries of "order," but on being called upon by the Speaker he resumed his seat.
§ The Speakersaid, that the hon. member should not be permitted to add further insult to the House. The hon. member must know that he had made use of personal language, which was not only offensive to the right hon. member against whom it was directed, but also to the House, whose forms and usages tolerated no such expressions. He really could not understand upon what principle it was, 1766 that the hon. member, who must feel that he had used an offensive expression, should wish to draw such a distinction in retracting that expression, as it must be apparent he had endeavoured to draw. He called upon Mr. O. Cave twice.
§ Mr. O. Cavetrusted, that he had never shown any disrespect to the chair or to the House; but he did not see how it could be fairly imputed to him, that he had drawn any distinction, when he had said that he apologized to the House. As to saying any thing further,—if any hon. member thought himself aggrieved by any thing that had fallen from him, let that hon. member get up and say that he had meant nothing personal to him, and he would say the same to that hon. member. But he did trust that there were no rules of that House which would deprive him of the vindication of his own honour, and of the maintenance of his personal character.
§ The Speakersaid, it must be clear that the hon. member's apology was only a partial apology. The hon. member had spoken of his personal honour. The hon. member must know that it was the duty of the chair to take care that no gentleman's personal honour should be hurt; and he must repeat, that the surest way in which the hon. member could preserve his honour was, to comply strictly and cheerfully with the demand which had been made upon him. He again called on Mr. O. Cave. After a short pause,
Mr. S. Ricetrusted that his hon. friend would receive the advice of a friend. He was a calmer witness than his hon. friend, and he did not understand any of the expressions of the right hon. gentleman to be personally directed against his hon. friend.
§ Mr. R. Colbornethought there could be no doubt as to the course which the hon. member should pursue. The mind of that man must be strangely constituted who did not think that the courage of avowing a fault was courage of the most manly character.
§ Mr. O. Cavesaid, that after what had fallen from his hon. friends, it would seem most impertinent in him to resist their advice. "I beg leave, Sir," continued the hon. member, "to make the apology in the sense in which you wish it to be made."
Mr. Peelsaid, the House must see that he could not have preceded the hon. member in concession. He knew that he had 1767 said nothing which could justify the word "false" being applied to him, and it was therefore impossible for him to have led the way in explanation. "But now, Sir, understanding the hon. member, when he says that he adopts your meaning, to speak unequivocally and without any reservation, I have not the slightest hesitation in assuring the hon. member, that I meant nothing personal to him. All I meant to say was, that local questions would generally be best decided by local jurisdictions. It never entered into my mind to give any personal offence to the hon. member."
§ Mr. O. Cavethen withdrew his motion.