HC Deb 27 March 1827 vol 17 cc105-8

The report of this bill being brought up,

Lord Belfast rose

for the purpose of moving that a clause be added prohibiting the extension of the principle of the bill to Ireland. The noble lord began by observing, that Ireland was unhappily not so far advanced in civilization as England; and that therefore those measures of legislation, which might be perfectly justifiable when applied to this country, were, in some cases, by no means fitted for the state of society in the sister kingdom. If a man went into a wood there, it was not so much for the purpose of poaching, as with an intent to destroy or steal the timber. If a thief broke into a dwelling-house, it was not so much for the purpose of taking money, as of carrying away fire-arms. Much additional protection was therefore necessary to the inhabitants of that country; and he certainly thought that the government were culpably negligent in not providing more effectually for the safety of those whose interests were committed to their care. The noble lord then alluded to a circumstance which had occurred in the county of Tipperary, on that very night week; and which, he contended, shewed clearly the necessity of a continuance of the protection of Spring-guns to Ireland. About ninety acres of land had been ploughed up by the nightly legislators in the neighbourhood of Thomastown. Between four and five hundred attended; several hundred shots were fired, and an incessant discharge of fire-arms kept up during the whole night. On the next day a notice was served on Mr. Smithwick, the owner of the land, to the following effect—" Notice is hereby given to Black Jack Smithwick, if he does not immediately give the wood and road-fields to the distressed poor for potatoe ground, at a moderate rent, he will meet with the fate of Baker, and Farrel's wife. Any person who stops up those sods, will meet with the loss of his life; and if you do not comply with this, we will shoot your stock, burn your dairy-house, men, and milk-women. This is enough—Given at the Council-room by the Provider of the Poor—ROCK." Now, he contended, that when the matter at issue was, as it appeared at present to be, the preservation of life, that House was justified in granting a permission to make use of more than ordinary means of defence. As to the bill itself, he could not, he confessed, agree with its hon. mover that it would be the means of preventing the effusion of blood. When men in parties of ten or twenty were, by the removal of the ordinary methods of defence, to be brought into hostile contact with each other so frequently as they must be, he very much feared that the provocation to the effusion of blood would be much increased, and the number of the sufferers from breaches of the Game-laws by no means diminished. He had thought it fit to make these few observations, and he now begged to move a clause, that the hill may not extend to Ireland.

Mr. J. Grattan

certainly did not expect to hear, among the charges brought against the government of Ireland, that it had failed in its duty, from neglecting to plant Spring-guns. He could not agree with the noble lord, that Spring-guns could be any protection to woods in that country. On the contrary, he thought it very probable, that if it was once known that there were Spring-guns planted in a wood, the fact would be an incentive to the people to set fire to that wood, and destroy it altogether. In the county of Wicklow, where he resided, there were very extensive woods; and he could say with safety, that they were never injured in any way, although no Spring-guns were planted in them. The people of Ireland were, he was sorry to say, guilty of great negligence in the performance of the ordinary duties of life; and he was convinced that, from forgetfulness and other causes, the use of Spring-guns to any extent in that country would be productive of the most lamentable results to the innocent, as well as prove a means of adding greatly to the outrages already too prevalent.

Mr. Spring Rice

also opposed the clause, and contended, that so far from declaring, as the noble lord would by his motion wish them to declare, that Spring-guns should be used where they had not been used before, they should rather do every thing in their power to abolish the practice altogether.

Mr. Secretary Peel

hoped the noble lord would not press his notion. The effect of it would be to make that House declare itself as permitting the use of Spring-guns in certain cases, at the very time when the legality of the use of them in any case was more than questionable.

Lord Belfast,

as there appeared to be a feeling in the House hostile to the clause consented to withdraw it.

The report was agreed to.