§ Mr. Calcraftsaid, he rose to present a petition upon a subject of great importance to the revenue. The petitioner was a Mr. Robert Morgan Price, residing in the Vauxhall road, a gentleman well versed in the business connected with the petition. He had formerly laid before the lords of the Treasury a plan for preventing the smuggling of tobacco, and had been referred to Mr. Carr, the solicitor of Excise, with whom he had had several interviews. But as soon as Mr. Price proposed the repeal of an act which had been passed at Mr. Carr's suggestion, that gentleman would have nothing more to say to Mr. Price's scheme. It must be admitted, that Mr. Carr's office was largely paid, by fees 37 upon Excise prosecutions, arising out of the existing system. The hon. gentleman proceeded to show, from the petitioner's statement the great facility which his plans would afford for collecting an increased revenue, and preventing smuggling. In consequence of the present imperfect system, there was a great defalcation in this department of the revenue. In one article, that of cigars, his suggestions had been attended to, and the result was, that in four months, the quantity on which duty was paid had increased from eighty-four pounds to sixteen thousand pounds of that article. Mr. Price calculated that if his plans were adopted, they would produce an increase of 1,000,000l. a year, with a decreased duty; but not under the present laws. For even at the decreased duty the smugglers might still realize a profit of 1,200l. per cent. In America the price of the raw article was 1d. per lb. In Holland it was 2d., and in England 2½d.; and the duty was 3s. per lb. So that the House would see what a wide field was opened for smuggling. Now, it was to put an end to this practice, and to give an improved revenue that Mr. Price had directed his attention. He thought that this plan of Mr. Price was well worth the attention of government, embracing as it did a proposition to increase the revenue by so large an amount, and at the same time to check the practice of smuggling. What he wished was, that there should be an investigation, either by the House or by the Treasury, into Mr. Price's plans. The necessity of some such inquiry would be evident, from what was stated with respect to the decrease in the quantity on which duty had been paid in Ireland, which had decreased from 9,000,000l. to 4,000,000l. The subject was one which deserved investigation, and if the right hon. gentleman consented to the appointment of a committee he was ready to assist in the inquiry.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, he did not mean to deny the respectability of the petitioner, but he thought the hon. gentleman attached too much importance to the petition, and he did not think that the facts were fairly stated. So far from the plans of Mr. Price having been rejected as unworthy of consideration, he himself had had interviews with that gentleman on the subject, and had read over with attention a variety of papers submitted by him; but he protested he could 38 not make himself so far master of them as to say he clearly understood them. The plans consisted, for the most part, in the suggestion of an infinite variety of restrictions on the tobacco trade. Now, he owned he was not disposed to commit himself by adding to the restrictions on this trade; which, though they might, he could well conceive, be approved of by the great dealers, would not meet the general approbation of the trade, and would be injurious and vexatious to them, as tending to produce large monopolies One reason why he was unwilling to sanction any such restrictions was, that some time ago Mr. Carr had proposed a new tobacco excise bill, adding many provisions much more onerous on the trade than those which already existed, but the proposition being opposed by the great mass of the trade, was abandoned by the right hon. gentleman who then held the office which he had now the honour to fill. He was unwilling, after such a rejection, to press what he knew would add to the restrictions already in force. It had been insinuated that Mr. Carr refused to pay further attention to Mr. Price's plan, when that plan suggested any alterations in his own act, as if such alterations would lessen his fees from prosecutions. Now, the fact was, that, if Mr. Carr had any fault, it was that of suggesting many restrictions which if adopted would have the effect of materially diminishing his own profits. If the hon. member were in the situation which it was his fortune to fill, and were compelled to attend to all the schemes for the amelioration of particular branches of the revenue which he received from ingenious, and he might say, fanciful men, he would find that he would have no time to bestow upon the real and more important business of his situation.
§ Sir John Newportrecommended the right hon. gentleman to pay attention to the subject matter of this petition. In Ireland 400,000l. was annually raised upon these tobacco duties, of which 200,000l. was paid back to the preventive service. He conceived that if the duty was diminished to ls. 6d., the revenue would be augmented by the increased consumption of the article which the diminution of the duty upon it would create. Besides, it would act as a prevention to that demoralization which always prevailed among a population which was accus- 39 tomed to engage in offences against the revenue laws.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer roseagain, merely for the purpose of repelling the imputation attempted to be cast upon Mr. Carr, who had repeatedly told him that, in his opinion, a low duty upon all commodities that were in constant request among the people, would prevent smuggling more effectually than any other mode that could be resorted to.
Mr. Maberlythought that the best way to prevent any imputations from being cast upon Mr. Carr, was for the right hon. gentleman to carry into effect the recommendation which had been given with respect to that gentleman's office, and to give him a permanent salary.
Ordered to lie on the table.