NAVY ESTIMATES.

HC Deb 12 February 1827 vol 16 cc434-49

On the order of the day for going into a committee of supply, and for referring the Navy Estimates to the said committee,

Mr. Hume

said, that before the Speaker left the chair, he wished, seeing the right hon. the chancellor of the Exchequer in his place, to ask him whether this was not a proper occasion for the right hon. gentleman to state what was his intention with respect to the expenditure for the year, he thought that, before the House was called upon to vote on this subject, they ought not only to know what was proposed as the amount of expenditure, but also the income of the past year, that they might judge of the scale on which the estimates should be formed, with a view to the means that the revenue of the country possessed of discharging its debts. He wished to know whether the expedition to Portugal had added to the amount of the estimates, and he wished also to impress upon the House the necessity of their considering that, in the present distressed state of the country, no increase should be sanctioned, and that they ought not even to be allowed to continue at their present amount. There was no part of the public establishment in which he wished less to see any reduction than in the navy; but he wished also that one general view of the proposed expenditure should be laid upon the table, before the House was called upon to vote at all. He took that opportunity of asking particularly, whether the navy estimates for the present year were to be on exactly the same scale as those for the last, or whether, as he had heard, they were to be increased? If the latter, he wished to know whether the right hon. gentleman could state, if the revenue was adequate to meet the increased expenditure, without resorting to a loan.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer

said, that any answer which he could make to the inquiries of the hon. member must of necessity be unsatisfactory, unless it could be accompanied with a full explanation, and a discussion of all the points involved in it. As he was not prepared to enter upon such an explanation and discussion at that moment, he could only pursue the course which he had adopted in antecedent years, and generally approved of by the House, whatever objections might have been made to it by individuals. He must also remark, that he thought, at the present moment, the state of the navy was an object of so great importance, that no obstacle ought to be placed in the way of the vote; and for this reason, even if he were prepared to enter on the discussion which the hon. member seemed to invite, he should decline doing so. At no distant period he should be in a situation to make the fullest statement on this subject, and he trusted the House would not think that it was from any unwillingness on his part to meet the discussion, that he now declined to let it interfere with the present vote, but because he thought that nothing should stop the course of so important a branch of the national strength as the navy.

Colonel Davies

said, that shortly after the meeting of parliament, he had given notice of a motion to refer all the estimates to a committee above stairs. It might be expected that he should, therefore, object to the present vote; but he begged to state his opinion, that every thing ought to be done to support the government of the country in the manly line of conduct they had adopted, and that he would be the last man to do any thing which might diminish the establishment of the navy. With respect to the army and the ordnance, he entertained the same opinion; and he therefore should not make the motion of which he had given notice.

Sir J. Yorke

said, that the hon. member for Aberdeen might be assured that the Board of Admiralty, as well as the other departments of the state, had fully inquired what were the exigencies of the state and what its expenditure, before they prepared their estimates, and that they had shaped them as low as was consistent with the honour and safety of the country.

Mr. Maberly

thought his hon. friend, the member for Aberdeen, had done no more than his duty. He had no doubt that ministers knew what was the state of the revenue; but that was not enough for the House. They had a right to the information which his hon. friend asked for, and ought not to take any thing for granted. Before the House consented to vote away the public money, they should have an account laid on the table of the means from which that money was to be derived.

Mr. Hume

said, he would not now prevent the Speaker's leaving the chair, but should take the earliest opportunity of as certaining the sense of the House on this subject.

Mr. Calcraft

thought there was a great deal in the hon. member for Aberdeen's objection, but considering the state of the country, he could not consent that any obstacle should be put in the way of the vote for the navy estimates. He was glad to hear that the establishment was not to be cut down, and that government had paused before they put into execution their intention of reducing it. Even if our foreign relations had been less urgent than they were, he should be against any reduction. Every body knew how much depended on the navy, and that when the country was involved in war, notwithstanding the reliance which we placed on the army, it was the navy that must fight us through. The praises which had been so justly bestowed on the duke of York, reminded him that the system of regularity and fairness of promotion in the army, which had been put in practice by him, was one of the most honourable parts of his character. He wished to recommend to those who had the direction of the navy, the adoption of a similar system, which would be satisfactory to the service, and eradicate the notion which prevailed almost universally, that the army was exclusively favoured. He was aware that the commissions not being bought had some influence in producing this notion: but he still thought that means ought to be adopted, by which those who merited preferment would be rescued from the hopeless state in which the present system plunged them.

Sir George Cockburn

assured the hon. member, that there was the strongest desire in the admiralty, to do every thing in their power to forward promotion in the navy. Some years ago it had been thought to go on too rapidly; but he was glad to see a more liberal feeling springing up, and was confident that nothing would be wanting on the part of government to give it a beneficial effect.

The House having resolved itself into the committee,

Sir George Clerk

said, that in calling the attention of the House to the navy estimates, he meant to confine himself to the differences between those of the present and of the past year. The difference in the total amount was not more than 10,000l. The number of seamen was exactly the same, and no reduction could be expected when it was considered, that long ago as great a reduction had been made as was compatible with the public service. The cessation of hostilities in the East Indies, and the more settled state of the governments in South America, would, perhaps, have justified the government in reducing the numbers, but other events which had happened recently rendered the necessity for keeping up the naval force as great as ever. The state of Greece required as great a force in the Levant as before; and, if any objection could be urged against the estimates, as respected this part of the establishment, it would be that the force was too small rather than too large. The wages were precisely the same, but a considerable diminution had taken place in the victualling charges. The Board had been enabled to effect this diminution by sending out provisions, instead of buying thorn through the hands of agents, and thus procured better as well as cheaper provisions. But some increase had been consequently occasioned in the transport service. The diminution of the half-pay charges amounted to 15,000l.; but that for widows' pensions had increased considerably. In the other departments there had been no change. The charge for new works was 36,000l.; and, respecting this, it was necessary for him to explain, that some of them had not been contemplated when the vote of last year was proposed. The finishing, repairing, and enlarging the Woolwich basin amounted to 15,000l. A sum of 8,000l. had been expended in the erection of flour-mills at Deptford. This had been done in consequence of serious complaints having been made against the contractors for the bad quality of the article. The greatest benefit had been experienced by this improved manufactory of flour, for which reasons he trusted that the expense of the mills would not be objected to. The marine infirmary and hospital at Chatham had cost 7,000l.; and, although this building seemed larger than was necessary, it must be remembered that it enabled the board to do away with the hospital ship, and reduced the medical staff to 4,000l. The hon. baronet then moved, "That thirty thousand men be employed for the sea service, for thirteen lunar months, from the 1st of January, 1827, including nine thousand Royal Marines."

Mr. Hume

said, that it was high time to confine this vote within due limits. It was given as a reason that no reduction had taken place in the number of men this year, that our expedition to Portugal had interfered to prevent such reduction. But if we were to right the wrongs of other countries at the expense of our own, the number of men which the committee were now called upon to vote, would in a short time be insufficient for the purpose. The House ought to pause a little, and consider whether an expense of six millions per annum was not too much to pay to support Portugal and preserve the faith of treaties. At the same time that he deprecated the system of keeping up expensive war establishments in time of peace, he was ready to avow, that he would rather preserve the whole of our naval force, expensive as it was, than keep up half our present military establishment. If this country had not a redundant military force, ministers would never have ventured on the rash step which they lately thought proper to take. A superabundant army tended to encourage a nation to go to war. Where was the necessity for our keeping up an undiminished navy, when it was notorious that if the fleets of all the world were arrayed against us, five hundred sail could not be produced to compete with us? It was worse than folly to keep up heavy war establishments in time of peace; because by so doing we deprived ourselves of the power to prosecute war with effect, when the necessity arose to adopt hostile measures. It was urged, however, that our interference in behalf of Portugal was a necessary step, and therefore he would not oppose the present vote, although as there was no longer a necessity for employing our forces in India and South America, the nation had a right to look for a reduction.

Mr. Maberly,

having voted with ministers for sending troops to Portugal, could not with consistency vote against the resolution now proposed. He thought that the present was no time to talk of reductions in the army or navy; and he felt the necessity of upholding those establishments the more, when he reflected on the threats which America had thought proper to promulgate in the late speech of her President. It was right that England should have it in her power to show that she had an efficient army and navy at her disposal, and that neither was in a crippled state. Our internal difficulties had, no doubt, given rise to and encouraged those threats; but he hoped that those difficulties would soon subside; and he felt that the surest mode of allaying them and preventing their recurrence would be, to reduce the heavy taxation under which the country was groaning.

Sir J. Yorke

said, that the hon. member for Aberdeen and himself were friendly to the same measures, and only differed in their means of adopting them. The hon. member wanted to cut down our naval establishment; but he could not agree with him in thinking that by husbanding our resources now, we could employ them to a better purpose when occasion required. On the contrary, he was firmly of opinion, that our best means of giving any country that might oppose us a black eye, was to show our capability to inflict it. Let the House look at what America was in 1783, and what she is in 1827; and then the question would naturally occur, whether it would be wise or safe to reduce a single frigate—whether it would be politic to cut off a single little finger from the body of the state. What would members say if the Secretary for Foreign Affairs had come down to the House and said, "Upon my soul, gentlemen, it is all over with us; we have neither ships nor soldiers to go to war." Instead of which, every measure of the right hon. gentleman had been crowned with success; a result which was mainly to be attributed to the 'means we possessed of assuming a hostile position. He remembered the speech of the hon. gentleman for Aberdeen, when it was proposed to assist Portugal. With part of that speech he could not help agreeing; but when the hon. member spoke about the danger of going to war, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs used an unanswerable argument—"Here's a treaty; is it to be kept or broken?" And what was the result? Had not the right hon. gentleman, in consequence of the step which we adopted with regard to Portugal, the power of saying to the ministers of France—" Well, gentlemen, if you evacuate Spain, I have no hesitation in saying that we will evacuate Portugal." He hoped he should not be considered partial when he said, that one of the right hon. Secretary's best assistants in the cabinet was his right hon. relative the chancellor of the Exchequer, whose loss would be generally felt, should the mot ions of the hon. member for Aberdeen be the means of getting him out of that House. Indeed, it would hardly be credited how much deference was paid to the opinions of the hon. member by his right hon. relative; for if any one were to go to him for the purpose of forwarding a job, the answer which his right hon. relative would make would be, "My good Sir, it is quite out of the question; why, what would Hume and the economists say V As for the Dead Weight, he wished it were got rid of, for the sake of the living; and even if it should be necessary that the 3 per cents should be reduced to 2½, in order to the support of the military establishments of the country, it ought to be done.

Mr. Hume

said, he should be sorry the idea should be entertained that he wished to cripple the resources of the country; at the same time he could not but observe, in reply to the gallant admiral, that the readiness to give a black eye often led to mischief. When a man had a sword at his command, it was natural for him to get into a quarrel; whereas, if he were without the means of doing mischief, it was more than probable that no quarrel would ensue. With respect to the American president's message, he saw no likelihood of a quarrel arising in consequence of that document; and he thought that this country would be highly censurable if any misunderstanding with America arose out of the question to which the message referred. The gallant admiral had alluded to his right hon. relative the chancellor of the Exchequer; and he was glad to bear his testimony to the merits of the right hon. gentleman; whose candid and manly conduct on all occasions, had gained him the confidence of the House and of the country.

The resolution was agreed to. On the resolution, "That 955,500l. be granted for Wages of the said 30,000 men, for thirteen lunar months, at the rate of 2l. 9s. per man per month,"

Mr. Hume

expressed a hope that the impressment of seamen would be discontinued. As soon as it was known that an armament was to be fitted out for Portugal, all the men engaged in the merchant service were filled with alarm in the several ports of England. They concealed themselves, and would on no account appear. At some future day he would bring the subject more fully before the House; and he trusted that, as some improvements had been introduced for the comfort of the seamen, impressment, which made the naval service so unpopular, would be abolished, and some inducement held out to men to enter voluntarily into the service. He also wished to see the ignominious infliction of flogging in the navy done away with.

Sir G. Cockburn

said, that the subject had engaged the frequent and serious attention of the Admiralty; and, although he might not quite concur in the opinions of the hon. member, he would say, that if impressment could not be altogether abolished, it ought to be avoided and discouraged as far as was consistent with the efficiency of the naval service. He would not now enter into the question, but he would express his dissent from the opinion of the hon. gentleman, that the naval service was unpopular. The contrary was satisfactorily proved on the late occasion of sending troops to Portugal.

Sir J. Yorke

thought the gallant officer exercised more anxiety, and was more nervous on the subject, than was altogether necessary. There was no question that required more to be thoroughly probed and searched than this. That the king, in a time of emergency, had a right to the services of every subject, was a proposition which he readily admitted; but a practice which tore a man cruelly from his family and his friends, and incarcerated him, as it were, in a prison ship, and obliged him to serve without limitation of time, was a practice that ought not any longer to be continued. If some milder method were adopted—some inducement held out to encourage men to enter into the naval service—with a population of twenty-two millions, it was perfect nonsense to suppose that we might not easily command, in any emergency, one hundred thousand effective seamen.

Sir G. Cockburn

said, that so far from being unwilling to discuss the subject, he had expressed his readiness to do so whenever the hon. member for Aberdeen thought proper to bring it forward.

Mr. Sykes

expressed a hope that some measure would be adopted that would do away with impressment in the navy. He should be rejoiced to see this foul blot removed from the high character of our naval service. Remedies had been suggested for the admitted evil. In a work written by captain Maryat, an officer of great experience, some valuable remarks were to be met with, which went to show that this great evil might be altogether abolished. He could not conceive a greater hardship than that a man in the merchant-service, on his return to his family, after having been six or seven years at sea, was liable to be seized on his coming into port, almost within the very view and grasp of his family and friends. Whenever the hon. gentleman should bring forward the question, it should have his sincere support.

Sir George Clerk

observed, that in time of peace it was unnecessary to resort to impressment, but when any great national emergency arose, requiring decision and celerity, he knew of no other mode of supplying the wants of the navy; but if the hon. member for Aberdeen was prepared with any measure on the subject, it should meet with every attention from the Board at which he had the honour to sit.

Sir E. Owen

said, he had frequently and anxiously examined this subject; and the more he examined it, the more he was satisfied that impressment at all times, and under all emergencies, could not, with safety to the naval service, be altogether abolished; and that the most that could be done was, to ameliorate the circumstances under which impressment took place. Much, he admitted, might be done —much had been done—to soften the severity in some degree inseparable from the practice of impressing seamen. It was a mode of reinforcing the navy that ought only to be had recourse to in seasons of public emergency; but, like corporal punishments, it ought to be rarely resorted to, although it might not be prudent altogether to dispense with it. Corporeal punishments were found necessary to be continued on land, and when the crew of a ship were considered, and the necessity of enforcing regularity and discipline duly weighed, the House would perceive how much more difficult it was to dispense with corporeal punishment in the navy. He denied that the officers of the navy inflicted punishment in the ignominious way attributed to them by the hon. member for Aberdeen. After a limited time of service, it might be well, perhaps, to dismiss old seamen, and to take young men in their stead; as the country had a right to the services of its young men. But the House should beware how the power of impressing seamen was abolished altogether—how they threw away one rope of its salvation before it had another to cling by. It was utterly impossible that the advantages of sailors on board of men of war could be rendered equal to those of sailors employed in the merchant service. With regard to the long term for which they were sometimes kept, it ought to be recollected that the last war was one of a peculiar character. It had lasted for twenty years. It was true that, in several instances, men had been kept longer on foreign service than was desirable; but that was an evil which could scarcely have been avoided. What had occurred in that respect during the late war could not be considered as the general rule; for it was not probable that such circumstances as those by which the late war was attended would recur. As to giving permission to the men to go ashore, it was well known that such permission was destructive to those by whom it was obtained; that when leave was given to our sailors in the West Indies to go ashore, they were in the habit of drinking to excess, and sleeping in the sun, and that on their return aboard, they fell ill, and half of them were sometimes lost. As to the question of punishment, he regretted that when any attack was made on the character of the officers of the navy for excessive severity, instead of a sweeping accusation grounded on private, and in many cases unfounded, information, specific instances were not adduced, which it might be practicable to meet and rebut.

Mr. Hume

said, that on former occasions when the question of excessive punishment in the navy had been under discussion, he had particularized cases of its occurrence. There was one case of a vessel having a complement of a hundred and twelve men, out of whom eighty-six had been flogged in the course of a twelve month. Would the gallant officer deny that such abuses had existed? They might be diminished; bat it was most desirable to prevent the possibility of their occurrence. On the occasion to which he alluded, he had not confined himself to one or two cases, but had adverted to a number, proceeding, not on vague, or private information, as the gallant officer supposed, but on the sentences of courts martial. It was not his habit to make any statement in parliament which was not founded on substantial evidence. In some instances he had withheld the names of the officers from considerations of delicacy. One officer, in particular, who had become sensible of his error, had been re-employed; and it would have been cruel to name him.

The resolution was agreed, to. On the resolution, "That 624,000l. be granted for Victuals for the said 30,000 men, for thirteen lunar months, at the rate of 1l. 12s. per man per month,"

Mr. Hume,

adverting to the item for erecting a corn-mill for the victualling department at Deptford, said, he should be glad to know for what reason government, instead of obtaining flour for the navy at that cheaper rate which competition would naturally occasion, had determined to prepare it themselves, at what must be a considerably increased expense?

Sir G. Clerk

observed, that if the article manufactured proved to be of a better quality than that which could be obtained by contract, a slight difference in the price ought to be no object; but the fact was, that at the mills at Portsmouth and Plymouth, the flour was produced cheaper and better than it could be obtained by contract. The adulteration of flour intended for the use of the navy had been carried to so great an extent, that it became necessary that government should take the grinding of it into their own hands. In the last year, not less than 6,000 bags of flour were found to be adulterated, either by a mixture of foreign ingredients, or by using wheat of an inferior quality; and as it was impossible that the examining officers could inspect every sack, it was fair to suppose that many others had escaped detection. The government, to prevent such fraud in future, had determined to grind their own corn, and, in addition to the mills at Portsmouth and Plymouth, they were to have an extensive one at Deptford, which would thus afford the means of grinding all the flour and biscuit meal required for the navy.

Mr. Hume

wished to know whether the fraudulent factors alluded to had been prosecuted. Had the payment of the penalties been enforced?

Sir G. Clerk

replied, that the punishment was the non-fulfilment of the contract. All the flour discovered to be adulterated had been thrown on the hands of the contractors. About six thousand sacks had been so detected, and so returned. But it was hardly possible, with the utmost vigilance, to discover every deteriorated sack; and it was probable, therefore, that a great portion of adulterated or inferior flour had been introduced into the consumption of the navy.

Mr. Hume

could not help thinking that if the Navy Board had given publicity to the frauds, and enforced the penalties, they would have been enabled to obtain good flour in other quarters.

The resolution was agreed to. On the resolution, "That 560,000l. be granted to defray the Wages of the Artificers and Labourers employed in his Majesty's yards at home, for the year 1827,"

Mr. Hume

said, he thought that this and the next item, which was chiefly for timber, and which, added to the present, amounted to 1,500,000l., might be considerably reduced, without injury to the public service. He did not see why we should continue to build very large vessels at an enormous expense. We had now five hundred and nine vessels of all descriptions, three hundred and seventy five of which were what were called sixth rates; and the ships laid up in ordinary were, he understood, never in better condition. If we should be engaged in another war, it, was clear that the nature of it would be a good deal changed, and that many of our large ships would not be of so much use as they had formerly been. We ought, therefore, not to put the country to the expense of building large vessels, when smaller ones might be more required. The Americans were much engaged in building ships of the latter description.

Sir G. Clerk

said, that government were by no means inattentive to the progress which other nations were making in the construction of particular kinds of vessels. When they saw any such vessels built, care was taken that we should have similar vessels to meet them in case of necessity.

Sir J. Yorke

did not think it necessary that we should continue to build very large vessels, or that we ought, in that respect, to imitate the Americans, who were constructing vessels of such a size that it would require a crew of Patagonian chaps of some eight feet and a half high to navigate them. It had often fallen to his lot to differ from his gallant friend, but he did so most widely on the subject of the experiment made of cutting down a seventy-four, and making it a kind of vessel which he hardly knew how to describe. The upper deck was cut down. The officers were obliged to go down a deck lower, and the men still lower; and in this state, without her proper complement of men, she was sent on a broiling hot station, where the thermometer was generally at ninety-six. This change was made at an enormous expense, all of which came out of the 1,500,000l. He also wished to be informed on what principle it was, that such a change was made in several of our cutter-brigs, which were transformed from exceedingly good vessels with two masts, into the worst possible kind of vessels with three masts. He could not see the reason of this alteration, which was about as expensive in its nature, as if the hon. Secretary to the Admiralty, who had great taste in building, should attempt to remove the walls of the Union clubhouse, in order to stick them up in some other position.

Sir G. Cockburn

said, that the subject on which the gallant admiral seemed so much at a loss for information was very easily explained. It was necessary to have a proper class of frigates to meet those of other nations. It was well known, that one of our frigates was captured in the late war by a frigate of the enemy; but it was not then generally known, that the vessel by which ours was taken was so much superior in size and force. The thing was looked upon as the capture of one frigate by another, and a general damp was cast on the public feeling for the time. To prevent a recurrence of any such event, it was determined to have a class of frigates which should be a match for those of any other nation. If the means taken for that purpose were not approved by the House, he would bow to their decision; but he could not assent to the opinion pronounced by his gallant friend, who scattered his attacks to the right and left, without any reflection or knowledge of the subject on which he spoke. The ship of which the gallant officer had given such a description was what it pretended to be, a frigate, and one of the finest in the world. She was one of the smallest class of seventy-four's cut down. A trial had been made of her, and though a short one, it proved that the experiment was completely successful. The seventy-four thus cut down was almost nothing as a seventy-four, and it would have taken an immense expense to put her into proper repair; but the cost of cutting her down to her present size was comparatively trifling. The vessels from which she was selected were not considered worth the expense of repairing, and were called the "forty thieves." The experiment of making first-rate frigates out of such vessels was worth the trial, and had hitherto succeeded. He did not say that such success would be certain in other cases, but he had every reason to believe it would. The admiral who sailed in the vessel on trial, had pronounced her the finest and strongest frigate in the world. As to the cutter-brigs, the gallant admiral opposite had shown himself as little informed as on the subject of the frigate. The fact was, that those cutter-brigs, from the great size of their mainsail, occasioned an immense straining on the timbers abaft the main mast; so that after a voyage, many of those timbers were found to be broken. Besides this, when any of them got into action with a sloop of war, they were, if any damage was done to the mainmast, almost immediately taken. In order to remedy this inconvenience, it was found necessary to alter them, so as to give them three masts. The Admiralty had instituted experiments to learn whether the cutter-brigs or the sloops were the swifter sailing vessels. They pitted each. of the brigs into which they had put three masts with one of the brigs in its usual state, and they found that, upon all occasions, the vessel with three masts beat the brig with two. He contended that, instead of spoiling these vessels, they had been made not only better sailers, but much better in action

The resolution was agreed to. On the resolution, "That 881,000l. be granted for Half Pay to Naval Officers, for the year 1827,"

Mr. Hume

said, that with all deference to the hon. member for Wareham, who had told the House, that promotion went on too slowly on the navy, he thought there was too much promotion in our naval service; that it went on much too rapidly; and that it was getting beyond the means of the country to support. The dead weight, instead of decreasing, as it annually ought to do, was increasing under the present system, and seemed likely to continue for ever. He contended that the House ought either to prevent promotion from being granted to more than a certain number of officers, or determine not to give it except to those who had been twelve or fifteen years in the service. Such a change would prevent young men of title and family from being promoted over the head of their seniors, without seeing any thing of actual service.

Sir G. Cockburn

contended that, from the opinion of the hon. member for Wareham, who thought that promotion went on too slowly, and from that of the hon. member for Aberdeen, who thought it went on too quickly in the navy, it was only fair to presume, that the Admiralty, in steering a steady middle course between the two, was acting with wisdom and moderation. He owned, however, that the Admiralty were more inclined to adopt the view of the hon. member for Wareham, than that of the hon. member for Aberdeen. The captains now at the head of the list had been twenty-six or twenty-seven years in the service; and, supposing they were thirty years old when they attained the rank of captain, they must now be nearly sixty years old. Now, without wishing to detract from their just claims, he thought it only right to keep feeding the service with young officers. In the promotions of the last year, thirty officers had been made captains, who passed their examinations as lieutenants twelve years since. He thought that the House would not grudge them that promotion. He also defended the expediency of holding out the chance of speedy promotion to the sons of noble and wealthy families as an inducement to them to enter into the navy.

Sir John Wrottesley

thought, that the system of promotion, which was conducted in the navy upon principles unknown in every other department of the state, was liable to great objection. In the army, no new commission could issue until a vacancy occurred. So in the civil departments of the country, no clerk could be promoted until there was a higher situation vacant in his office. But, in the navy, promotions could be made to any extent, as, in point of fact, though not exactly in point of form, a man might be made captain without having any ship to command. Indeed, a lord of the Admiralty had no limitation, except his conscience, to his power of taxing the country, by promoting inferior officers.

Mr. Hume

said, as promotion was asserted to be necessary to keep the navy in order, he supposed it would be equally necessary for the marine service; and yet, in one year, he saw two hundred and ninety-four promotions in the navy, and only thirteen in the marines. From 1810 to 1826 there had been only seventy-six promotions in the whole marine service.

The resolution was agreed to.