Lord Folkestonepresented a petition, very numerously signed, from the inhabitants of Rochdale, praying for an alteration of the Corn Laws, a reform in parliament, and a reduction of taxation.
§ Colonel Johnsonwarmly supported the 43 petition, and observed, that the measures called for by it were the only effectual ones for giving relief to the country. In this House attention seemed to be paid to all classes but the poor, who were at that moment in various parts of the country in a state of starvation. The hon. member then alluded to the new circulation of one-pound notes, and said that their baneful effects were beginning to be displayed by the convictions of six men for forgery, which had taken place at the Assizes for Lancaster. He wished to know what steps government meant to take upon this occurrence.
Mr. Secretary Peelsaid, that he knew nothing of these trials or convictions but through the same channels of communication which were open to the public.
Mr. Grenfellobserved, that the conviction of six unfortunate men for the crime of forgery of one-pound notes was, he feared, but the recommencement of that frightful system of temptation to forgery, and consequent execution from which the country had been for some time at breathing. He begged to ask his majesty's government, whether the new circulation of Bank of England one-pound notes was to be as likely to expose the country to the frightful evils of which he had spoken, as it had been hitherto? Had the Bank done, or were they about to do, any thing which would make the forgery of their notes more difficult? He admitted the impossibility of making an inimitable note, but much could be done to enhance the difficulty of imitating those at present in circulation. It was a fact, that forgeries of country bank notes were very unfrequent. But why was this, except that the country bankers took greater pains to guard their paper against mutation? He hoped that the Bank would feel the serious responsibility under which it lay, and devise some means of diminishing the temptation to the most frightful of crimes.
§ Mr. Wellsagreed as to the great facility with which Bank of England notes might be imitated. It was incumbent on the Bank of England to endeavour, by every means in their power, to limit these facilities. The notes of the Bank of Ireland were not so easily imitated, and forgeries of them were comparatively unfrequent.
§ Mr. Irvingsaid, that the Bank of England were as anxious to put a stop to forgery as any body could be. In proof of that, they had appointed a committee to inquire into the subject, which was un- 44 ceasing in its labours for twelve months, and had examined the most eminent artists in the metropolis, at an expense of 80,000l. But, notwithstanding all the ingenious suggestions of the persons examined, it was found to be impossible to make a note incapable of imitation.
§ Mr. Home Drummondthought it un-candid to charge upon the notes of the Bank of England those faults which were incident to all bank notes. The notes of the Scotch banks were not better executed; and as for the country bank notes, nothing could be more clumsy or worse executed. The frequent forgeries upon the Bank of England were, therefore, not to be accounted for otherwise than by reference to the facility of imitating the note, and he should say that the extent of circulation of that note over all others, and more particularly in London, and the quickness with which it circulated, were more plausible explanations of the disparity. Such was the ingenuity displayed in the forgery of notes, that it was impossible to prevent it.
§ Mr. Ellicehoped, that the fact which had been stated that night would have the effect of making the Bank pause before they proceeded to take advantage of the clause in the bill just passed, and again deluge the country with a material so pregnant with temptation to crime. For three years the public had got rid of this pernicious circulation, which as soon as it again showed its head, produced fresh crimes and fresh executions. For the sake of humanity, he hoped this would be the last instance of so prodigal a sacrifice of human life.
§ Sir M. W. Ridleyadmitted, that it was impossible to produce a perfectly inimitable bank note, but, from the specimens he had seen, he was clearly of opinion that the present note might be very much improved. It was certainly unfair to say, that because Bank of England notes were more often, they were therefore more easily imitated. It should be recollected, that these notes were differently circumstanced from all others. The notes of country bankers circulated within a small compass, and the handwriting of the banker was known, perhaps, to every man in trade within the particular district. But it was not so with the Bank of England note. He did not think that from any superiority in the form of the note, nor even by getting rid of a paper circulation, we should put an end to crime; for 45 when there were no bank notes, the calender of crime teemed with coiners.
Mr. Secretary Peelsaid, it was ridiculous to compare the quantity of crime committed by coining with that committed by forgery. For the last three years the system had had a fair trial, and what was the result? That some convictions had undoubtedly taken place for coining, but in no proportion to the number convicted of forgery during the paper system. At the same time it should be recollected, that at no period were the five-pound notes out of circulation, and that one of the cases at Lancaster was for forging a five-pound note. He was ready to admit that the one-pound note was more easily passed away, and that many would try their hand at that, who would be afraid to attempt a larger one. The question here was, whether or not the Bank were to blame? The impossibility of making an inimitable note being admitted, how could the Bank be reproached, more particularly after the statement made by one of the Directors, that in the attempt to enhance the difficulty of forging a note, they had expended no less than 80,000l.? There could be no doubt but that the wishes of the Bank concurred with their interest in putting a stop to forgeries. These prosecutions were conducted at a great expense, and the Bank could not be insensible to the effect which they had produced on the public mind. He had always thought that, though it might be impossible to make an inimitable note, the prospect of engrafting some improvement upon the present note was not hopeless. It was worthy of remark that the Bank of Ireland notes were not forged, although the temptation as to the extent of their circulation was comparatively as great. He was decidedly of opinion that something might be done to the Bank of England note to render it more difficult of imitation.
§ Ordered to lie on the table.