HC Deb 16 March 1826 vol 14 cc1374-9
Mr. Wynn

rose to bring forward his motion, respecting the appointment of writers in the service of the East India Company. By the act 53 Geo. 3rd, c. 155, no person could be appointed a writer, who had not passed four terms at the East India college. Since the establishment of that college, from the extension of the company's territories, the necessity of appointing an additional number of Zillah officer's in Bengal, and other causes, there had been a deficiency of qualified persons. It was found also, that there was a disposition on the part of qualified persons to conceal their qualifications, in order to prevent their being sent a hundred miles into the interior. Hence there was an arrear of not less than 75 writers, and it was calculated that 50 would be required this season. The present establishment of the college did not admit of supplying this number. His object, therefore, was, to suspend the operation of the clause in the statute referred to, in order that persons might be selected who had not passed their four terms, but who were duly qualified. This measure was not intended to imply a distrust of the system pursued at the college. He believed that system had fully answered its purpose. If the question related to the new constitution of the college, he should decidedly prefer its being assimilated to our existing universities; as he conceived it was much less advantageous to persons to be educated in classes, than to be mixed together. At the same time, he considered it highly creditable to the establishment that in the short space of two years the students acquired so much. The other point embraced by the bill he was about to move for, respected the payment of allowances, on account of officers dying when absent from India. The act of 53 Geo. 3rd. provided that certain allowances should be paid to officers, while absent from India, on account of ill health, for a period not exceeding three years; but beyond that time no allowance was granted. This was a considerable hardship on those officers whose state of health rendered it impossible for them to return to India within the prescribed period. They ought to be allowed to draw some allowance, if necessary for their support, beyond that specified period: otherwise, the chance was, that they would get into difficulties, and the time given them for the recovery of their health would be absolutely lost. By going back to India within three years, those individuals would be entitled to claim a certain allowance, under the act of parliament. Many officers had done so, in consequence of the state of the law, before their health was completely established, and the consequence was, that they had fallen victims to disease. The object of the bill, in this respect, would be to give to officers going to the Cape of Good Hope or to Ceylon on account of ill health, the same allowances as if they were in India, and also to provide for the payment of allowances on account of officers dying while absent from India on account of ill health. The right hon. gentleman concluded by moving, "That leave be given to bring in a bill to suspend such part of the act of the 53 of Geo. 3rd. c. 155, as relates to the appointment of Writers, and to remove doubts as to the payment of allowances of officers dying while absent from India."

Mr. Hume

said, that what had been stated by the right hon. gentleman cast, in his opinion, a strong reflection on the East-India company's institution at Hailey-bury. He thought that the whole of the system on which that institution was founded was exceedingly injurious. The young men were shut out from all society, and had no opportunity of acquiring the least knowledge of the world. Such a system was calculated to destroy the native character of Englishmen. The speech which lord Grenville delivered in another place, against the formation of this college, did him the greatest honour. The arguments adduced by that noble lord were conclusive against the system; and experience had amply proved, that the noble lord's view of the subject was correct. He clearly showed what would be the result of such a system. Year after year disturbances had taken place in that college, and the young men acquired any thing but that high tone of honour, principle, and public spirit, which they ought to imbibe, to fit them for the high situations which they were destined to fill. He had often deplored the situation in which India was placed, in consequence of the formation of such an establishment. Young men were sent out to act in the most important capacities, without any general knowledge of the world. Individuals were cooped up in that secluded monastery, as he might call it, where they could acquire no knowledge of active life. Young men of twenty-two years of age, were raised to the rank of judges in the Zilla courts; many of which had jurisdiction over a space larger than Yorkshire. For five successive years, attempts had been made, in the court of proprietors, to alter the system which prevailed as to the education of writers; but every attempt had failed. He was glad therefore that government had at last taken up the subject. He hoped, however, that the right hon. gentleman would select some proper mode of examination for persons going out to India. He wished persons educated in the college, as well as those educated out of it, to be subjected to the same test. He was surprised that some measure of this nature had not been before resorted to. But, the fact was, that the court of directors had no will of their own. They were obliged to obey the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Wynn), or any other right hon. gentleman who might fill his situation. Every public servant sent out to India ought to be qualified to perform the duties attached to his situation. The business of the college was better conducted now than formerly; still, he must express his decided conviction, that it never would answer the purpose for which it was originally intended. It was only so much brick and mortar, and the expense incurred by keeping the establishment up ought to be done away.

Captain Bradshaw

, adverting to the practice in India relative to Cadets, said that it was usual to make regular reports of their advancement in a knowledge of the language; and adverted particularly to the case of one individual, who was so inattentive to the study of the Hindostanee, that he (captain B.) was directed to inform him, in the presence of the other young men, that the commander-in-chief would not appoint him, if he did not make himself master of the language. The consequence was, that the next day he sent for a Moonshee, began to study, and in a short time was as perfect in the language as any of his fellow cadets.

Sir T. Baring

said, that a cadet could obtain a more perfect knowledge of the native language by a six months' residence in India, than he could by two years' study in this country. He thought upon the whole, that if individuals were allowed to receive their education at such places as their parents or friends thought best, the company would have the best guarantee that their servants would be educated and effective men. He hoped, therefore, that the right hon. gentleman would make his alteration permanent.

Mr. C. Grant

trusted that his right hon. friend would only make this a temporary measure. The whole of the complaints-made against Haileybury College tested on vague report. That institution had been opposed by those who obstinately adhered to the former system, merely on account of its having long prevailed, and who were adverse to any im- provement, which they regarded as a dangerous innovation; and likewise by a certain class of the company's servants in India, who conceived that it would militate to their prejudice. It had also opponents in the court of directors, and of proprietors. Much had been asserted about the irregularities which had occurred in that establishment. On this point he would only say, that those irregularities were not greater in number or degree than were to be met with in other seminaries of the same magnitude. He would not enter into the number of minor complaints which had been alleged against this establishment; but he would contend, that since it was founded there had been a marked improvement in the conduct and character of the company's servants in India. Instead of dealing in vague assertion, he would quote the sentiments which men of very great talent had expressed as to the usefulness of this institution. In 1810, lord Minto spoke highly of its usefulness; a few years after, colonel Roebuck gave testimony of a similar character; the marquis of Hastings had expressed his approbation of the College in the most unqualified terms. And this night, his right hon. friend had stated, that every communication which he received from India more strongly convinced him of its usefulness. Some gentlemen were of opinion, that it would be sufficient for every purpose, if individuals going out to India were obliged to submit to some common test. There appeared, at first sight, something very plausible in this; but this test could apply to nothing but literature. It could have no reference to scholastic discipline, to moral character, or to propriety of conduct. Besides, gentlemen must feel how easy it was to procure a certificate of proficiency, under such a test as had been alluded to. Therefore, leaving out of the question the habits of moral discipline which the present system produced, even in a literary point of view, the mode of education, which was advocated by the opponents of Haileybury College, would be extremely defective. When individuals spoke of the proficiency which a young man ought to obtain before he proceeded to India, he took it that they adverted to the lowest degree of proficiency—to that which might be fixed as a minimum. Now, it was quite evident to him, that that minimum would be both the minimum and the maximum. There would be no. inducement to make a young man ac- quire any knowledge beyond that which was necessary to carry him through his examination. Where there was competition, as was the case at present, the result was very different. Now, he begged to ask, what was to be done with the patronage of the East India company, if the existing system were abandoned? Was it meant to throw open the writer-ships to all the young men of the country? Were they to be made the reward of successful competition? If so, the question must be argued on other grounds. At present, those appointments were made by the directors of the East India company, and were granted at their will. Every appointment was viewed, not as a matter that was to be contended for, but as a vested interest which some individual had already obtained through his connexion. So far from its being looked upon as a thing that might be contended for, many cases could be adduced, where, even when some delinquency was proved, it had been considered a great hardship to deprive the student of that which had been promised to him. This was a very nice point to deal with. The present system, he conceived, was well calculated for sending out efficient servants to India; but, if a better could be devised, be the expense of time or money what it might, he certainly would support it.

Dr. Phillimore

believed that Haileybury college had fully completed its functions by furnishing India with a supply of well-educated young men for the civil and military services. At the time of establishing the college, there was a great deficiency of the proper means of education. Never did any functionaries acquire more honour and credit than the young men sent out from the college.

Mr. Trant

said, he did not think so highly of the education in this college. His experience of the effects of it in India led him to prefer the education at the Universities.

Leave was given to bring in the bill.