HC Deb 09 March 1826 vol 14 cc1254-8
Mr. Littleton

rose for the purpose of redeeming the pledge he had given last session, to submit some resolutions on the subject of the formation of Committees on Private Bills. The House were aware that a committee was appointed on this subject in the last session, and had made a report, and some resolutions were founded on that report and printed; but, owing to the late period of the session, those resolutions had not been disposed of. He was glad the delay had taken place, because, upon, a more mature consideration of the subject, he found that one of the resolutions which he then intended to propose would not be so practicable as another course which had been since suggested to him. The House were aware that there were two committees necessary on a private bill. The first was on the petition for leave to bring in the bill, which had to examine whether the usual standing orders had been complied with, and whether all the parties interested had received due notice. In this committee, though its inquiries were only as to certain matters of form, it often happened that there was as much effort made by parties on both sides, as there was afterwards in the committee on the bill itself. The lists of counties from which members were selected to constitute committees on private bills, were, as the House was aware, made out about twenty-five years ago, by the Speaker. Formerly, members were selected from divisions of counties made by the circuits. But now they were made up from members serving for the counties, in which the bridge, road, or canal (he mentioned these by way of illustration), the subject of the bill, was situated, and also of the members for the counties adjoining. Now it happened, that the persons so selected were, from their local situation, likely to be affected in some way or other by the proposed bill, and they were found generally either to be all strongly opposed to, or warmly in favour of, the measure; by which it not unfrequently would happen, that the interests of parties adverse to their views might be overlooked. This was an evil to which he thought a remedy ought to be applied; and to effect this, one object of his resolutions would be, to alter the principle on which lists were made out. He would propose, that a list should be made, consisting half of country members, and half of members serving for remote parts of the united kingdom, as Ireland and Scotland, and in such numbers as would always ensure a sufficient number for a committee. He would have the members of that committee so mixed as to prevent the canvassing which had been carried to a great extent by attornies and other agents for private bills, who would not be likely to know who might be appointed members of such a committee.—But then came the great object, to prevent any undue bias for or against the bill. It suggested itself to him, that this might be obtained by allowing parties interested, who might have objections to particular members being on a committee, on the ground of their being in some way affected by the measure before it, to strike off certain members of those appointed, so as to leave a sufficient number for the purposes of the committee; but, on consideration, he thought that this might cause many delays, unless members were compelled to serve on committees when once appointed. His hon. friend, the member for Yorkshire (Mr. S. Wortley) who had great experience on the subject of private committees, had suggested a less objectionable, and, as it appeared to him, a much more effectual course; which was, that where complaints were made against, the proceedings of a committee on a private bill, the parties complaining, on petition to the House, might have the subject referred to a committee of appeal, which would have the power of finally deciding on the whole matter. The selection of this committee should be made in the same manner as that of the committee of privileges—that was, that it should be made from members of counties, merchants, &c.; from this body a select committee should be chosen like election committees, by ballot; and to this committee the complaint against the committee on the private bill would be referred. To prevent, however, any frivolous complaints, he would propose, that this committee should have the power of awarding costs against the parties who might come before it without sufficient grounds. This he thought would have the effect of rendering the formation of the original committee more pure. He would not at present enter into any further details, as he did not anticipate any discussion on this evening. He would, therefore, move the first resolution, with the view of having the whole printed, and would name Wednesday next for taking them into consideration—The following is a copy of the said resolutions:

1. "That the present distribution of counties, for the purpose of forming Committees on Private bills, prepared under the direction of the Speaker some years ago, has, from the great inequality of the numbers of members contained in each list, and from other causes, been found ill suited to the object for which it was framed:

2. "That, with a view more nearly to equalize numbers, and to correct too strong a prevalence of local interests on committees on private bills, it is expedient that a new distribution of counties should be made, containing in each list, as nearly as may be, one hundred and twenty members; one half only, or thereabouts, to be taken from the county immediately connected with the object of the bill, and the adjoining counties; and the other half from other counties of Great Britain and Ireland; and that the members serving for such counties should constitute the committee on each bill:

3. "That Mr. Speaker be requested to direct a new distribution of counties to be prepared at the commencement of each session, in such manner as shall be approved-of by him, conformably to the principle of the foregoing resolution:

4. "That every committee on a private bill be required to report to the House the bill referred to it, with the evidence and minutes of the proceedings:

5. "That a committee be appointed at the commencement of every session of parliament, to be called the committee of appeals upon private bills, which committee shall consist of all the knights of the shire, all the members for cities, and such other members as may be named therein; so that the whole number appointed to serve upon such committee shall amount to two hundred at least:

6. "That where any party interested in a private bill, who shall have petitioned the House, and shall have appeared in support of his petition, by himself, his counsel, or agent, in the committee upon such bill, or where the promoters of a private bill shall be dissatisfied with any vote of the committee upon such bill, and shall petition the House, setting forth the particular vote or votes objected to, and praying that they may be heard by themselves, their counsel, or agent, against such vote or votes, such petition shall, together with the report of the committee upon the bill, and the minutes and evidence taken before such committees, be referred to a select committee of seven members of the House, to be chosen by ballot from the committee of appeals upon private bills, which select committee shall hear the arguments of the parties complaining of, and also of the parties supporting, such vote or votes, and shall report their opinion thereon to the House:

7. "That whenever a petition shall be presented, complaining of any vote of a committee upon a private bill, the House will fix a day whereon to ballot for a select committee, to whom such petition shall be referred, upon which day, at a quarter past four o'clock, or as near thereto as the question which may be then before the House will permit, the Speaker shall order the doors of the House to be locked, and the names of the members composing the committee of appeals upon private bills being written upon separate pieces of paper, and put into the glass, the clerk shall draw there from the names, until seven members of such committee, who shall be then present, and who shall not have voted in the committee upon the private bill to which the petition refers, shall have answered to their names, which seven members shall be the select committee to whom such petition shall be referred, and such select committee shall meet for business the following day at eleven o'clock, and continue to sit, de die in diem, until they shall have reported upon the same:

8. "That no member of such select committee shall absent himself therefrom during its sitting:

9. "That such select committee shall, if they think fit, after the hearing of such argument, order the party or parties complaining to pay the whole or any part of the costs attending the same, or the party or parties defending such vote or votes:

10. "That the party or parties complaining shall, previously to the ballotting for such select committee, enter into recognizances, him, her, or themselves, in the sum of 100l., and two sureties in the sum of 50l. each, for the payment of such costs as may be awarded against him or them."

Lord A. Hamilton

did not mean to offer any objection to the resolutions; but, as he understood the hon. member, the committee of appeal would rather have to try the merits of the former committee, than to decide on the question which had been the subject of the private bill. If this were so, he thought it would be attended with inconvenience. He gave his thanks to the hon. member for introducing these resolutions, because there were opinions in the public mind highly prejudicial to the character of committees on private bills.

Mr. S. Wortley

could not deny, that there had been instances in which these committees had been guilty of injustice; but, generally speaking, they had done their duty ably and impartially.

The resolutions were ordered to be printed, and the debate upon them was adjourned to Wednesday.