§ The House resolved itself into a committee on this bill.
The Chancellor, of the Exchequersaid, that the only alteration in the resolutions 1140 which he had the honour to propose some time since would be this—that, up to the 5th January, 1830, the duty on Cape wines should be 2s. per gallon; but after that period the duty to revert to its former standard of 2s. 6d. per gallon.
§ Mr. Humewished the right hon. genleman, for the benefit and encouragement of the trade, to make the duty 1s. 6d. a gallon for two years, and 2s. for three years, which would cover the term of five years, on which the right hon. gentleman propose to reduce the duty.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, he could not. comply with this suggestion. He had already met the trade half-way, and he generally found that to meet a party on such occasions half-way was to satisfy him.
Colonel Palmerstated his reluctance in giving an opinion upon a subject wherein be was personally interested; but, considering himself in some measure to"be more acquainted with it than others, and perhaps enabled to give some information, he wished to make a few observations upon the reduction of the duties. It appeared to him that, unless means were taken to prevent the monopoly of the trade, the public would derive but little benefit from the measure. As to the port trade, the remedy was in the hands of the government, who had only to call on Portugal for the performance of her engagement, in the treaty of 1810, which would effectually protect the trade from the monopoly of the Oporto Wine Company, and at once throw it open for the benefit of both nations. As to French wines, and especially claret, the same monopoly existed, but from a different cause; that trade being governed, for the most part, by a few merchants at Bordeaux, who supplied a few merchants in London, who on their part considered the reduction of the duty as an injury, instead of benefit, to themselves. This was stated to him by an individual of the trade, before the reduction took place, who observed, that it would be injurious to his (the hon. member's) interest, as a claret-grower, by opening the market to the cheaper wines of France; but, however that might be, it would at least be a benefit to the public, and especially those who, from having visited France since the peace, preferred the wines of that country, to be enabled to purchase them at a price they could afford; whilst, on the other hand, looking to the principles of free trade adopted 1141 by government, he was surprised that, having made up their mind to a reduction of half the duty, they should still leave France the only exception to the rule, and thus deprive both nations of the benefit of their measure; for the difference of duty still shut the door of the English market to the general entry of French wines; and as to claret, admitting the price to fall the amount of the duty lowered, was it to be supposed that the saving of 15l. out of 100l. to 120l. would induce the purchaser to increase his consumption? This brought him to the information which he considered a duty to offer to the public, and also to the trade. He had no hesitation in saying, that the price of claret in this country was at least double what it ought to be, and actually was, before the late war with France, when the consumers in England and Ireland were in the habit of purchasing the best at about 25l. the hogshead. What, then, had been the causes of the increase of price and the decrease of consumption? First, the augmentation of duties during the war, which, independent of the necessary increase of expense, raised it higher by the additional capital required, and other expenses of the trade, which brought it into the few hands in which it had since remained; added to which, the consumer had the profits of two intermediate parties to pay, betwixt the grower and himself; first, the Bordeaux merchant, who purchased of the grower, and who skimmed the cream of the bargain for his own benefit; and then the London merchant, who, what with the price at Bordeaux, the heavy addition of the duty, long credit and bad debts, was obliged to charge an exorbitant sum to pay himself. But this was hard upon the consumer willing to pay a just price for the article; and the best remedy for the evil would be, for the London merchant to buy of the grower, to enable him to supply his customers at a cheaper rate, and prevent their saving him future trouble, by importing their own wine. But, to effect this, certain prejudices which had hitherto favoured the monopoly it would be necessary to remove. For instance, it was asserted, and generally believed, that the best claret was only grown upon the estates called Chateau Margaux and Lafitte; whereas that made upon others was equally good; and not a hundredth part of the claret sold by the merchants under these names, came from the estate of either. In proof of 1142 this, he declared, as a proprietor, that the vines upon his own property (to say the least of it) were in all respects whatever, equally good as those of Chateau-Margaux; and that the claret of the well-known vintage of 1815, made upon his estate, and landed in England from his cellar at Margaux, was equally well flavoured and full-bodied as the best of the same vintage from the merchants' cellars at Bordeaux. The first assertion, as matter of fact, he was ready to prove, if not to the satisfaction, at least in the teeth of any Bordeaux or London merchant who might have asserted or believed to the contrary; and the other, as matter of opinion, he would refer to those who had tasted both wines, at the best cellar and table in the kingdom. It was also said, that the pure claret had not body enough for the English market; this was true with respect to ordinary years, but the claret of superior vintages had sufficient body for this climate, and was preferred generally by the best judges in its natural state; whilst all that was or could be added, without destroying the quality, was a certain portion of hermitage, which involved no secret nor difficulty whatever in mixing.—He had thus stated the causes of the high price of claret; but if the right hon. gentleman, who in bringing forward his budget, had observed how much the increased duty on wine had checked the hospitality which formerly was the character of the gentry throughout the country, who from the ease and independence of their circumstances were enabled to keep up that social intercourse and friendship which formed one of the greatest enjoyments of life, and the best criterion of the general happiness of the people—if the right hon. gentleman wished to promote that object on one hand, and to make up to the revenue for reduction of duty by increased consumption on the other, he would avail himself of the opportunity which the expiration of the treaty with Portugal now afforded, of equalizing the duties upon foreign wines, and. by opening the English market to those of France, contribute to the mutual interest and good understanding of both nations.
Mr. Bernalwished to submit to the right hon. gentleman one circumstance connected with the duties on wines, which appeared to him deserving of attention. It was known that, at present, independently of the duty on wine, there was 1143 a separate duly on the glass bottles in Which the wine was imported. This duty operated, particularly in the case of French wines, to a very oppressive extent.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that undoubtedly the duty on bottles imported into England from wine countries, whether those bottles were full or empty, was about 8d. on each bottle, besides 8s. 3d. per cwt. on the glass; so that the gross duty was very nearly 1s. on each bottle, and, pro tanto, therefore, increased the expense of the duties it contained. It was a subject that had before been pressed on his attention and it should receive it; but the hon. gentleman would remember, that there existed in this country a very old excise duty on our glass bottles; so that, tinder any modification that might here-After be adopted, foreign bottles must still be taxed, in reference to that excise duty.