§ Mr. Haldimandrose to present a petition from some of the most respectable, and he might add most intelligent, silk manufacturers in England. It related to the arrangements which it was understood were to be made for carrying into effect the propositions of the chancellor of the Exchequer in respect of this trade; and it prayed that no alteration might be made in those arrangements. The petitioners especially prayed that there might be no delay in their execution; and they added, that if this question of delay had not been agitated afresh, the whole of their hands would have been by this time in active employment. They also expressed their perfect satisfaction with the intention which had been avowed, of allowing them a drawback upon manufactured articles. With regard to the suggestion as to spreading the operation of the new arrangements over a certain number of years, he really thought it could have no other effect but to paralyze the trade, and repress the energy, which, if the right hon. gentleman's propositions were at once adopted, it would undoubtedly manifest. He had seen that morning some silk merchants, as well as the manufacturers, and had expected to be intrusted with a petition from them. He was, however, enabled to say, that the silk merchants were favourable to the new arrangements.
Mr. Baringsaid, that from the speech of his hon. friend, the House might be induced to suppose, that he was holding it up as the petition of a certain number of persons, in favour of the measures proposed by the chancellor of the Exchequer. No such thing. His hon. friend having 1286 favoured him with a sight of this petition, he was enabled to state, that there was in it no recommendation of the measure. What he meant by "the measure" was, the free trade of silk manufactured goods, of the goods of France coming into competition with the goods of this country. Now, in support of this proposition, the petition contained not a single word. The fact, he believed was, that there were some gentlemen in the trade who had large stocks on hand, and who were therefore very willing to put their hands deep into the public purse. But he would repeat, that neither had this, nor any other petition, yet presented, proceeded from any body of persons concerned in the silk trade, who approved of the general principles upon which the House was in this case legislating.
§ Mr. Humethought the House would know how to estimate the argument of his hon. friend who spoke last, when it remembered the petition, signed by twelve persons, which his hon. friend had presented on the preceding night. Twelve persons, he believed, were all that could be found in the city of London to subscribe it. Those individuals (at the head of whom he observed the respectable name of Hale) wished to keep up the Spitalfields monopoly. Now, the petition which had just been presented was signed by thirty-three of the principal persons of the trade in London, in the short space of two hours and a half; and so far from their not being favourable to the principles upon which the chancellor of the Exchequer was proceeding in this business, they earnestly prayed that the measures proposed by the right hon. gentleman might be acted on with as little delay as possible. He had received a letter from one of the very first houses in London, that of Messrs. Wilson, Moore, and Robinson, in which they expressly said, that, with the time which was now allowed for the arrangements, the silk trade in London had nothing to fear from a competition with the manufactures of France.
Mr. Philipssaid, that any person who had read the evidence taken before a committee of the Lords—evidence not taken with a view to the plans of the chancellor of the Exchequer, but not the less applicable to his views—must feel convinced, that the English manufacturer had nothing whatever to fear from a competition with France. The very man who now petitioned against the arrangements of the chancellor of the Exchequer, had stated 1287 before that committee, that in no one article of manufacture had the French any superiority over us. The hon. gentleman next adverted to the East India monopoly, which he considered deserving of immediate attention, Such was the jealousy entertained with respect to the trade in the East Indies, that no clerk or manager, however high in the confidence of his employers in London, would be permitted to go out to India, to manage the concerns there. Much apprehension had been expressed as to the injury which the silk trade might sustain, if the chancellor of the Exchequer persevered in his plans. Now, he was clearly of opinion, that these fears were unfounded, and that before two years had expired, the trade would be found to have extended and improved.
§ Mr. Ellicesaid, he had received letters from various parts of the country, embracing the same opinions as those which the petitioners had expressed. The manufacturers of Coventry were anxious that the right hon. gentleman should not make any alteration in his measures. Indeed, those measures had proceeded so far, that it would be difficult, even if it were desirable, for the right hon. gentleman to go back. Having said so much, he felt himself bound to take notice of an assertion which he had heard that night. It. was said, that the silk manufacturers of this country were able to compete with the manufacturers of France. This he must deny. The English manufacturer was not able to do so in the article of dyeing, nor had he machinery of equal excellence. A number of looms had been some time since imported from France, and Frenchmen had even been brought over to work at them.
Mr. Baringbegged to remind the House, that with every disposition to obtain and get up petitions on this subject, not one had yet been laid upon the table approving of the whole of the project of the chancellor of the Exchequer. The hon. member for Aberdeen had indeed read a letter from one house in London, but that firm had been the advisers of the chancellor of the Exchequer, and were of course anxious that the scheme should be carried speedily into effect, as they had so conducted their speculations as to be burgely benefited by the change.
§ Mr. Haldimandadded, that the petition had been prepared and signed in an hour and an half that morning. The petitioners did not say, that they were satisfied with 1288 the measure itself, but with the arrangements to carry it into effect.
Sir T. Lethbridgeexpressed a wish, that the chancellor of the Exchequer should state to the House the exact sum which the country was likely to lose by the amount of the drawbacks. Some had fixed it at 100,000l., while others had stated that it would amount to 1,300,000l. He was anxious that the real sum to be lost by the country should be known. He had been applied to by the cloth manufacturers, who were anxious that the duty on their stock on hand should also be taken off. It would be unfair not to put both parties on a footing with respect to a remission of duties.
§ Mr. Brightfeared, that although the chancellor of the Exchequer was disposed to be very liberal to the dealers in silk, the dealers in wool would suffer severely by the proposed changes in our system. Reports had gone abroad, that it was not intended by government to allow any drawback upon wool, and he had called the attention of the president of the Board of Trade to the point on a former day. The two trades were of equal importance to the welfare of the state, and ought to be treated with equal justice. The woollen manufacturers were in a state of the greatest alarm, in consequence of an apprehension that they were to be dealt with most unfairly by the chancellor of the Exchequer.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that as the petition before the House related to silk and not to wool, a more convenient time might be found for discussing the claims of the manufacturers of the latter. That time was necessarily near at hand, when he should be quite ready to enter fully into the subject; and he undertook to demonstrate, even to the satisfaction of the hon. member for Bristol that the course he intended to pursue, was identically that which the woollen manufacturers themselves had proposed. As to the question which had been put to him by the hon. baronet, he must be aware of the extreme difficulty of arriving at any calculation, as to the cost of this measure, within a few thousand pounds; Thus much he would say, that of all the exaggerations that had ever entered into the mind of man, that which had been propagated so industriously on this subject was the grossest. It had been stated in some quarters, that the drawbacks would amount to not less than 1289 from a million to 1,500,000l., but he would venture to assert that they would not even distantly approach any such sum. The calculation, if such it were, seemed founded upon a supposition, that there was a larger quantity of manufactured silk uncut on hand than was possible, in the way in which the trade was carried on; for the compulsion to attend to the fluctuations of fashion and other circumstances, rendered it impossible that there should at any time be a very large stock on hand. Besides, the bounty to be returned was only half the duty paid on the raw material; and, in the third place, that bounty, was only to apply to goods uncut. The expense, in the whole, might perhaps be 200,000l., or even 250,000l. If this expenditure were attended with immediate and increased activity on the part of the manufactories it would soon be more than repaid, not only in the employment for the industry of the people, but in the money actually paid into the Exchequer. The more he had thought of it, the more he was convinced that the calculation was founded upon a gross exaggeration,
Mr. Alderman Woodsaid, that he was anxious that the drawback should be allowed on cut as well as uncut silk.
Mr. Mundyadmitted, that the alarm formerly prevailing in Derbyshire had subsided. The silk manufacturers were now content with what had been conceded. He hoped the chancellor of the Exchequer would persevere.
Mr. Baringremarked, that the manufacturers of Derbyshire might very reasonably be contented, because the chancellor of the Exchequer had given them a special protection and exemption. They were silk-throwsters, and had an advantage over the rest of the trade, in opposition to all the fine principles of political economy.
Mr. Alderman Thompsonpresented a petition from the retail silk-mercers of London, praying that the drawback may extend to cut pieces of silk goods. They stated, that ninety-nine hundredths of their stock consisted of cut goods, and contended that they were entitled to compensation, as they should otherwise be losers to the extent of 800,000l.
§ Mr. T. Wilsonsupported the prayer of the petition, and contended that the retail dealers in silk were better entitled to 1290 compensation than the wholesale manufacturers, because they could least afford the loss they would sustain by this measure. He recommended their case to the serious consideration of the chancellor of the Exchequer.
§ Ordered to lie on the table.