HC Deb 23 February 1824 vol 10 cc366-8

The report of the committee of Supply was brought up. On the first resolution being read,

Mr. Hume

said, that the chancellor of the Exchequer had calculated the average expenditure for the next four years, on the present scale of 73,041 regulars, and if the present report were agreed to, there would be no reduction for four years to come. At any rate, there were no circumstances to authorize the continuance of so large a force. The same reasons which were urged by the chancellor of the Exchequer, for a small reduction of taxation would justify a much larger reduction. There was no other means than this of giving relief to the country; and if the expenditure were not much more diminished, there would be little or no good done. The House were now to be called on to vote 73,000 regulars with 19,000 veterans, artillery and marines, making a total of 92,000 men, not 3,000 of which were at any time out of the country. Thus there were 92,000 men embodied at an expense of more than six millions a year. He remembered that in 1817, lord Castlereagh had admitted that seven millions was an extravagant vote; and he only asked it for that year on account of the disturbed state of the country. But the noble lord had then stated, that no less a sum than four millions would be voted for charges wholly unconnected with that year. These four millions were made up of items that were never again to occur. The expenditure of the navy had been reduced, more reduced perhaps than that of any other department; the expense of the Ordnance had also been reduced: but putting barracks and all together, the expenditure for the army was now greater than in 1817. He was ready to acknowledge the liberal disposition of ministers as to commerce; but there was an influence exerted somewhere to make and keep England a military nation. Unless the House interfered, no alteration and no relief could be expected. He recollected four years ago when ministers said the government could not go on if further reductions were insisted on; and he had little hope now of any good being effected, for the House then applauded ministers for their representation, and approved their conduct. The House would, therefore, do as the ministers wished; and unless they were disposed to make reductions, he was afraid the House would not compel them. If 10,000 men less were voted, however, there would be an additional saving of half a million every year; and he should neglect his duty, if he did not urge the House to agree to such a reduction. Last year a large expenditure had been permitted, because the whole of Europe was in a state of fermentation—but at present there was no ground for a similar expenditure, for his majesty's speech talked of nothing but peace. He thought 63,000 men quite enough for the present year, and he should, therefore, move an amendment to the report—

"That as his majesty was graciously pleased in his speech from the throne to inform the House that, 'at no former period has there prevailed throughout all classes of the community in this island, a more cheerful spirit of order, or a more just sense of the advantages, which, under the blessings of Providence, they enjoy.

"'In Ireland, which has for some time past been the subject of his majesty's particular solicitude, there are many indications of amendment, and his majesty relies upon your continued endeavours to secure the welfare and happiness of that part of the united kingdom.

"His majesty has commanded us, further, to inform you, that he has every reason to believe that the progress of our internal prosperity and improvement will not be disturbed by any interruption of tranquillity abroad.

"'His majesty continues to receive from the powers, his allies, and generally from all princes and states, assurances of their earnest desire to maintain and cultivate the relations of friendship with his majesty:'

"This committee cannot, therefore, agree to any increase of the number of the army since last year, but are of opinion that a standing army of 63,000 regulars, exclusive of 19,000 of artillery, veterans, and marines, now embodied, and a large force of militia and volunteers ready on any emergency to be embodied, are sufficient, under all the circumstances of the country, to be kept up."

Lord Palmerston

said, that this question had been so fully discussed on a former night, that he should not trouble the House with re-arguing it. He rose for the purpose of setting right an error in the hon. member's comparative estimate of the year 1817 and the present year. He seemed to think, that the estimate of the former year was less than the present, when in fact we had, in 1817, 107,000 men, at an expense of 6,664,000l. whilst in the present year the expense fell short of six millions.

The House divided: For the resolution 52; For the amendment 8.