HC Deb 25 June 1823 vol 9 cc1209-12
Mr. Brougham

said, that he had a petition to present, which he had received with the most unfeigned sorrow, and which he had no doubt would excite the same feeling in the breasts of other hon. members when he detailed the particulars of it to the House. The petition was from Mr. B. R. Haydon, historical painter, who, from the great talent which he had exhibited in his profession, was entitled to expect a competency from it, but who was now, unhappily in the King's-bench prison, overwhelmed by ruin, and without hope of redress, owing to his having refused to take portraits, and to his having confined himself exclusively to one branch of the art, historical painting, in which, from the state of the market, it was not possible that more than one or two persons should succeed. The situation of the petitioner was so melancholy, that he believed his only means of amending it would be, by taking the benefit of the insolvent debtor's act. The petitioner stated, that after having devoted nineteen years of his life to the study of the arts, and after having collected various casts, sketches, and drawings, which were the objects of his daily study and nightly veneration, the whole of his collection had been swept away at once, by an execution that had been issued against his property. The petitioner did not apply to the House for relief in his own case, though he was reduced to such a state as to be obliged to begin life again, after undergoing the loss of his former collections; but he did apply to the House to protect other artists from similar disasters, by affording greater encouragement to historical painting. Mr. Haydon founded most of the observations in his petition upon the report of a very able and learned committee of that House, which had sat in 1817 upon the Elgin marbles, and which, after stating the advantages that were likely to be derived from that stupendous collection, submitted "to the attentive consideration of the House, how highly the cultivation of the fine arts had contributed to the reputation, character, and dignity, of every government by which they had been encouraged, and how intimately they were connected with the advancement of every thing valuable in science, literature, and art." Upon that recommendation, the House had given considerable encouragement both to sculpture and architecture; and, as he (Mr. B.) thought, with justice, if the country were able to afford it. Mr. Haydon, reflecting upon the encouragement thus given to the sculptor and the architect, asked, why was not similar encouragement given to the art of historical painting? That encouragement he conceived to be the more necessary, since historical pictures were more fitted for the altars of churches than they were for the rooms or even the galleries of private individuals. Now, the House had recently voted 1,000,000l. of money for the building of new churches. Mr. Haydon had consequently some right to say, that when they expended thousands upon the sculptor and the architect, they might expend a small portion of the money by way of encouragement upon the historical painter. He could not but feel sympathy for the unfortunate gentleman whose petition he had to present, though his only acquaintance with him had arisen from his (Mr. Haydon's) having called upon him to request him to present it. He must certainly say, that all he had seen of him upon that occasion was calculated to leave a very favourable impression upon his mind of Mr. Haydon's talents and general conduct. He would move, that the petition be brought up.

Sir C. Long

allowed that there was not at present sufficient encouragement given to' that branch of art, to which the petitioner had devoted himself; but, at the same time, he did not see how such encouragement could be afforded by legislative enactment. He had been requested by the petitioner to present this petition; but as he did not like to raise hopes which he knew must end in disappointment, he had endeavoured to extract from the petitioner the means by which encouragement was to be afforded. Whether the petitioner had been disappointed by meeting with this treatment on his part, he could not tell; but the result had been, that the petition had been ultimately placed in the hands of the learned gentleman opposite. He was certainly inclined to encourage this branch of the arts, if he knew how; bit, unfortunately he did not. He could not, however, conclude, without congratulating the House upon its having shown on a recent occasion, a more liberal feeling towards: the arts than that which had formerly influenced it. He believed that the learned gentleman himself, who had just praised the report of the committee on the Elgin marbles, had given his strenuous opposition to the carrying into effect the recommendation of that committee.

Mr. Brougham

, in explanation, stated, that when the purchase of the Elgin marbles was under the consideration of the House, two distinct questions were involved in it; first, the right of lord Elgin to take them; and next, the money-value of them. Regarding the first, he was not much inclined to be squeamish. He certainly thought that lord Elgin had conferred great benefit upon the arts in taking them from Greece; since, if they had been left there, they would have been ground to powder by the Turks for the purposes of building. Regarding the second, he would remind the House, that there had been a great difference of opinion as to the pecuniary value of them, and that the opposition which he had given to the vote for the purchase of them, was derived from the financial distress which at that time pressed upon the country. The value of those marbles to the arts he had never disputed: indeed, he thought that some of them, mutilated as they were, were greatly superior to the Apollo Belvedere and the Venus de Medici, both of which he had had an opportunity of seeing at Paris.

Mr. Croker

was not without hopes that this petition might do good, seeing that it related to a case of distress which touched the heart, at the same time that it affected the mind. He was not, however, clear upon the principle, that historical painting ought to he forced upon the public. Among painters, historical painting was considered that kind of painting which was least historical. True historical painting was portrait painting; and, those who had seen the splendid collection of portraits in the gallery of the British Institution would be convinced that those portraits were really historical pictures. If there were any artist so attached to historical painting, as to say that he would not condescend to paint portraits, that artist ought to be reminded, that Titian, Raphael and Rubens were not more distinguished for their historical paintings, than they were for their skill in portrait panting. He thought it necessary to say thus much, to prevent young artists from giving themselves up to the same foolish idea which appeared to have acted so injuriously to the fortunes of Mr. Haydon.

Ordered to lie on the table.