HC Deb 09 July 1823 vol 9 cc1496-8

On the order of the day for further considering the report of the committee on this bill,

Mr. Western moved, that the said order be discharged. The bill, in principle at least, had met with universal approbation; but he was induced not to proceed further with it, in the present session, at the suggestion of the right hon. Secretary for the Home Department. Indeed, the bill, if passed, could not be carried into execution this year without much inconvenience; as the precepts to return jurors issue from the July sessions, which would commence before the act could pass. After some general observations on the subject of the administration of justice in the country, the hon. member asked, whether ministers had taken into their consideration the practicability of accomplishing a more frequent and extensive delivery of gaols by additional assizes?

Mr. Peel

said, that he had requested the hon. member to postpone the bill, not because he felt a decided objection to its principle, but because so important a measure required more deliberate consideration. He agreed with the hon. member, that a more frequent deliverance of gaols was, as a principle, a good one, but there were difficulties in the way of the details of such a measure, which he had not been able to overcome. He thought there might be an addition to the number of judges, as he saw no charm in the number of judges, unless its antiquity. He believed sixteen would be a more efficient number than twelve. He allowed that great advantage, had been derived to the public from the appointment of a third assize upon the Home circuit, but he doubted whether an additional assize could be carried into effect on the other circuits, at least while the number of the Judges remained the same.

Mr. M. A. Taylor

did not approve of a third assize, and felt sure that it would be very objectionable to those who formed the juries in the several circuits. Two assizes were quite sufficient. If the labours of the Bench were more than could be reasonably expected from the judges, they ought to appoint others to relieve them, upon those circuits where the extraordinary business might require it. There was one officer who might be immediately put upon that duty. He meant the Cursitor Baron of the Exchequer. It was true that the worthy gentleman who held that office was advanced in years; but it would be well to take care, when his successor should be appointed, to select a person who might furnish the required assistance.

Mr. Scarlett

said, that when government directed a second assize to be held through the northern circuit, they ought to have taken care to provide the additional expenses to which they had subjected the judges.

Mr. M. A. Taylor

said, he could take none of that blame upon himself, for he had done all that was in his power for the accommodation of the judges. He had not only done so in his own county, but at the request of lord Sidmouth, he had waited on the bishop of Durham, and asked his lordship if he would have any objection to take in the judges at the Castle in the winter, the same as he had done hitherto on the spring assizes. That right reverend person told him in plain terms, that he would not take them in, and requested him to entreat the lord chancellor to select younger judges for the circuit, alleging the great inconvenience as to the attendance and means of accommodation from the visits of the old judges. He had talked over the subject of these additional expenses with Mr. Justice Park, and had strongly advised an application from the judges themselves upon the subject. Mr. Justice Park had said, that he would have nothings to do with it. The rest of his learned brethren were at liberty to apply if they pleased, but as he possessed property enough for an independence without it, he would continue to bear his own expenses.

Mr. Peel

said, that the only objection he had to make to the statement of the hon. member was, that the accounts of extraordinary expenses of the judges going circuit upon the new assizes had been sent in, and regularly paid by the government.

Mr. Brougham

, in corroboration of the statement or his hon. friend near him, said that the very reverend prelate in question had been quite as good as his word. The judges were allowed to come, but it was at their peril. His reverend lordship would have nothing to do with the expense of their entertainment. He took them into the castle but that was all. He thought the least that could be done wag to relieve the judges from any additional expense which might be imposed upon them, in consequence of their labours being thus increased.