HC Deb 30 November 1819 vol 41 cc515-6
Mr. Brougham

wished to ask the noble lord opposite, whether he meant to persist in the notice he had given last night, to move the order of the day on Thursday next, for the second reading of one of the bills which he had introduced? The reason why he asked this question was obvious; because, whichever of those bills came first to be discussed, the debate consequent on it would involve the discussion of the whole system to which that bill had reference. He would ask the noble lord, whether it was a decorous proceeding towards the country, after three days notice, and occupied as they would be that evening, in an important discussion, to call on them to consider a measure which went to effect a most extensive change in the constitution of the country—an alteration greater than ever was contemplated in the memory of man, by any one act of the legislature?

Lord Castlereagh

said, he saw no reason for altering the proposition which the House had adopted last night, namely, to read the bill (which had been printed and handed round in connexion with the others) a second time on Thursday next. The learned gentleman had, in his opinion pushed the connexion between the bills too far. The sooner they came to the discussion of the principle, the sooner they would separate the bill from all the misrepresentation with which the learned gentleman seemed so anxious to surround it, during his short speech of last night. That speech made him extremely desirous to come to close quarters on the measure, in order that the country might understand what the bill really was to which the learned gentleman and those around him attributed such fearful qualities, and that it should be completely freed from the misrepresentations that had been thrown upon it.

Mr. Brougham

said, as there was no question before the House, he certainly had not a right to answer the noble lord, but he might be permitted to observe, that his having studiously endeavoured to surround the measure with misrepresentation, as had been alleged, so far from being a reason for rapid and immature decision, afforded the best possible ground for a short delay. The bill itself could not be affected by his misrepresentations: it might be laid in its own natural "features" as the noble lord would call them, before the public; and its provisions might then be argued by the country and the House, with that deliberation and calmness for the exercise of which the delay of a few days was absolutely necessary. If the noble lord would not listen to him—if he would not consent to that delay—then he would say to the speaker and to the House, that, in common decency, some little time ought to be allowed for them to communicate with their constituents, whose most valuable and sacred, and until now, he would have said, inalienable rights and privileges, were about to be overturned by the system recommended by his majesty's ministers.

Lord Folkstone

said, he had gone to the proper office and got a copy of the bill; and he defied any individual who had procured it, and who had turned over one or two of its pages, to say, that he could be at all prepared, considering the labour gentlemen were likely to go through that night, and the important discussion which was fixed for to-morrow, to decide on so important a measure on Thursday. It was impossible for any gentleman who examined the bill, and saw the numerous and complicated provisions which it contained, to be prepared to discuss it on Thursday, so as to justify his conduct to his constituents, for the vote he might give. Why should a bill of such importance be hurried through the House in this manner? Was it that the people should know nothing of it until it was passed? Were they so anxious to get rid of those meetings, that the bill, which restricted the assembling of the people, was to be hastened forward, so as to prevent the people from assembling to state their opinion with respect to the measure itself? If it were hurried forward with such precipitation, it could neither be understood in the country nor in that House. He hoped the noble lord would agree to the proposition of his learned friend, and postpone the second reading of the bill for a few days.

Mr. Bennet

earnestly wished the noble lord to put off for a short time the discussion of a measure which he deliberately and advisedly considered to be subversive of the constitution. He was most anxious, as the bill would effect such a change in the constitution, that the House of Commons should be assembled together to meet it; and he now gave notice, that he would to-morrow move that the House be called over.