HC Deb 01 July 1819 vol 40 cc1429-37

Sir Henry Parnell laid on the table of the House the following

RESOLUTIONS CONCERNING THE RETRENCHMENT OF THE PUBLIC EXPENDITURE.
1. THAT the gross Receipt of the Ordinary Revenues of the United Kingdom, in the year 1818, was 62, 230,527l. £. An. Fin. P. P. No. 1.
Out of which there was paid, for Charges of Collection 4,367,750 lb.
For Charges for managing the Expenditure of the same 1,173,116
viz.: 5,540,866
To the Treasury 103,139 Sess.pa.No.114.
the Bank 277,228 An. Fin. Pa. No. 5.
the Civil Departments of the Navy 506,000 Estimates 1819.
the Civil Departments of the Army 150,228 lb.
the Civil Departments of the Ordnance 82,891 lb.
The Commissioners for auditing the Public Accounts 53,630 An. Fin. Pa. No. 5.
1,173,116

Making a Sum of 5,540,866l., paid out of the annual Public Income, for managing the Collection and Expenditure of the same.

2. That the gross Receipt of the Ordinary Revenues of the years 1818, 1810, and 1796, was collected at the following Rates per centum:—

Excise. Customs. Stamps. Assessed Taxes. Post Office. Hackney coaches. Hawkers and Pedlars.
1818 £. s. d. £. s. d. £. s. d. £. s. d. £. s. d. £. s. d. £. s. d.
England 3 11 2 9 3 8 * 12 6 3 17 11 27 18 0 14 6 10 16 2 10 An. Fin. Pa. No. 1. p. p. 9, 11, 26, 42.
Scotland 6 17 10 16 9 11 2 *England And Scotland
Ireland 12 9 11 16 13 9 8 5 3 16 19 10 71 13 4 — —
1810
England 3 0 5 5 19 0 2 13 0 31 0 0 — —
Scotland 7 11 8 6 14 3 4 10 10 15 9 0 — — 6. REP. com Expend, 1810, p. 151.
Ireland 17 3 6 13 0 11 6 13 11 51 13 3 — —
1796
England 4 2 10 6 0 11 4 5 7 4 6 1 28 2 11 8 11 0 35 9 3 23 Rep.com.Fin.1797, p.35.
Scotland 7 18 4 11 8 7 7 10 2 5 18 0 13 12 11 — —

3. That the low rate at which the English Excise Duties are collected, is not to be attributed to any facility in collecting them peculiarly belonging to this branch of the Revenue.
4. That there is this striking difference between the Excise Department and all other Departments, excepting the Post Office, that the whole patronage of this Department, with a few exceptions, is vested in the hands of the Commissioners. 7 Rep. com. Fin. 1797, p. 31.
5. That in Ireland the whole patronage is vested in the hands of the Executive Government. 2 Rep. Com. In. and Expen. Irel. 1812, p. 90
6 That nearly the whole of the patronage of all the other Departments in England and Scotland, is vested in the Crown, or in the Board of Treasury. Customs 14 Rep.
Com'rs Accts. p. 54.
Stamps 6 rep. com. fin 1797, p. 23.—Tax office, ib. 8 Rep. p. 18.
7. That it appears, from various Reports of Committees of this House, and of Commissioners who have been appointed by Parliament to inquire into the Public Income, that the established system of keeping the Accounts of the Public Money in the Departments employed in collecting it, is intricate and perplexed; and that if the systematic simplicity and uniformity of keeping Accounts, which is practised in Trade, were substituted in its place, the Accounts of the Public Money might be kept and rendered as speedily and as correct as Mercantile Accounts. Hackney coaches and pedlars ib. 10 and 11. Rep. p. 10 and 11.
Evidence of Accountant General of Stamps, 5 rep. 2nd part, 1810, p. 110.
8. That it appears, from the same Reports, that the office rules for transacting Public Business are attended with great intricacy and perplexity, particularly in the Customs, whence no less than twelve tedious operations are required for the discharge of a single cargo, and where a 13 Rep. comm'ss Accts. p. 44
great part of the time of the Officers is occupied in useless entries and computations.
4 Rep. Com. Fin. 1797, p. 26. 9. That it appears, from the same Reports, "on the evidence of persons having long and extensive experience in the commercial and technical details of the Revenue Laws, that a consolidation and simplification of them would enable the Officer to execute his duty with more promptitude and safety, and the Merchant and Tradesman to know better how to transact their concerns with the Revenue."
10. That the ordinary Revenue of the United Kingdom is collected by three Boards of Customs, three Boards of Excise, two Boards of Stamps, one Board of Taxes, one Board of Hawkers and Pedlars and Hackney Coaches, and two Post Offices; consisting of 64 Commissioners and four Post-Masters General.
11. That if the principle on which the Officers of the English Excise are appointed, viz. the exclusion of Treasury influence, was made general in that Department, and extended to all other Departments; such a Re-form would tend very materially to diminish the Charges of Collection.
12. That if the simple Mercantile system of Accounts was established in all the Public Departments; and if the rules of Office, and the regulations of the Revenue Laws, were simplified, such a Reform would tend materially to diminish the charges of Collection.
13. That if the Salaries of all the Revenue Officers, and the Poundage Fees of the Receivers General, and of the Stamp Distributors, were revised; if the hours of attendance were increased; and if the Incidental and Law Expenses belonging to the Public Departments were properly controlled and limited, such a Reform would tend materially to diminish the charges of Collection.
14. That if the present Boards for collecting the Revenue were consolidated, and brought together into the Metropolis, so as to act immediately under the inspection of the Treasury, and subject to the constant control of Parliament, such a Reform would tend materially to diminish the charges of Collection.
8 Rep. Com. Fin. 1797, p. 5. 15. That the "intricacies and cross-payments in the nature of Draw-backs, Allowances, and Bounties;" the excessive Duties on Tea, and certain other articles, by encouraging smuggling; and the laws of Navigation, and for prohibiting Foreign Manufactures, add considerably to the charges of Collection.
16. That the Expense of the Office of Treasury was, £.
15 Rep. Com. Fin. 1797, p. 6. In the year 1796 40,764
Sess. Pa. No. 114, p. 3. In the year 1818 103,139
Of which latter sum, 13,410l. was for the Commissariat Branch, and 5,327l. for the Irish Branch; both of which have been added to the Treasury Department since the year 1796.
17. That the whole Expense incurred by the Bank of England in managing the Public Debt, was estimated by the Committee on the Public Expenditure, in the year 1807, at 119,500l.; that it may now be estimated at 150,000l.; which sum being deducted from the sum of 277,228l., paid to the Bank in the year 1818, will leave a nett annual profit to them, of 127,228l., for managing the Public Debt.
18. That the Expense of the Admiralty Office was, £.
In the year 1796, being the third year of War 52,666
17 Rep. Com. Fin. 1797, p. 6. Estimates 1819. In the year 1819, being the fourth year of Peace, the sum voted is 59,332
17. Rep. Com. Fin. 1797, p. 22 19. That the Establishment of the Navy Pay Office was fixed by an Order of Council, dated 9th October, 1789, exclusive of the Salary to the Treasurer of the Navy; at 9,128
Estimates 1819. That the sum voted for Salaries and Contingencies for this Office in the year 1819, is 37,839
20. That the Establishment of the Navy Office amounted,
17 Rep. Com. Fin 1797, p. 22. In the year 1796, to 40,561
Estimates 1819. In the year 1819, the sum voted is 77,189,
21. That the Sum voted for Dock Yards at Home, was
lb. Vol. 68, p. 689. In the year 1813, being the tenth year of war 212,142
Estimates 1819 In the year 1819, being the fourth year of peace 225,000
22. That the Sum voted for the Establishment of the Victualling Office, in the year 1795, was 42,405 Com. journ. vol 5o, p. 78.
In the year 1819, it is 47,000 Estimates 1819.
23. That the number of Seamen voted in the year 1795, was 100,000 Com. Journ. vol. 50, p. 31.
and in the year 1819 20,000 Estimates 1819.
24. That the Sum voted for the Civil Departments of the Navy, was in the year 1792, being the last year of Peace 125,109 Com. journ. vol. 47, p. 116.
In the year 1813, being the tenth year of war 572,373 lb. vol. 68, p. 689.
In the year 1819 it is, being the fourth year of peace 506,000 Estimates 1819.
25. That the Salaries in the Commander in Chief's Office amounted to, in the year 1793 (exclusive of any Salary to the Commander in Chief) 813 8 Rep. com. Mil. Inq. p. 207.
In the year 1819, the Sum voted for Salaries is 7,424
To which is to be added, for the Commander in Chief 5,999
Four Aides de Camp 693
Contingencies 724
Making in the whole, for the year 1819 14,840 2 Rep. com. Fin. 1819, p. 55.
26. That the Establishment of the Office of Secretary at War, amounted, in the year 1796, to 51,290 19 Rep. com. Fin. p. 191.
In the year l819, the Sum voted is 55,290
That notwithstanding the great establishment of this Office, the number of Military Accounts in arrear is so large as to incur an annual expense of 18,121 Estimates 1819, p. 22.
27. That the perplexed nature of the Regimental Accounts, arising from the several Stoppages and Allowances, is productive of great delay and trouble, and occasions a great part of the expense incurred in the present system of examining the Accounts at the War Office. Evid. Mr. Greenwood, 19. Rep. Com. Fin. 1797, p. 29. 6 Rep. Mil. Inq. p. 333.
28. That the Establishment of the Pay Office amounted,
In the year J796, to 20,729 19 Rep. com. Fin. 1797, p.
In the year 1819, the Sum voted is 30,506 Estimates 1819, p. 22.
29. That the Establishment of the Office of Comptrollers of Army Accounts, amounted, in the year 1797, to 4,470 19 Rep. com. Fin. 1797, p. 33.
in the year 1819, the Sum voted is 12,458 Estimates 1819, p. 22.
30. That the Civil Establishments of the Ordnance amounted, In the year 1796, to 51,618 21 Rep. Com. Fin. 1797, p. 64.
In the year 1819, the Sum voted is 82,891 Estimates 1819.
31. That if the Offices of Paymaster of the Army, Treasurer of the Navy, and Treasurer of the Ordnance, were consolidated into one Board, to transact the business of a Bank for the whole Military Expenditure; and if the Civil part of the Office of the Commander in Chief, the Office of Secretary of War, and the Office of Comptrollers of Army Accounts, were consolidated into one Board, to examine and control all Army Accounts; such a Reform would tend materially to diminish the charges for these Establishments.
32. That "of late years a system of progressive increase of Salaries has been extended to most of the Public Offices; but that in the Ordnance Department, this practice has been carried to the greatest length, and applied to messengers and others, not entitled to the benefit of increase of salaries in any other Departments." 6 Rep. Com. Fin. 1817, p. 1817.
33. That "no sufficient control has been exerted over the additious which have been made to the Expenditure in all the Public Departments; by Augmentation of Salaries, by official Incidents, by Allowances, by Superannuations, and above all, by Compensations." 6 Rep. com. Expen. 1810, p. 152.
34. That the Commissioners of the Treasury are constitutionally responsible for all improper accumulations of charges in the Public Expenditure; and, if they are not already able to prevent them, "they should 3 Rep. Com. Expen. 1810, p. 122.
be armed with new powers to control with effect all the Public Departments."
35. That the progressive increase of Salaries has accompanied the change in the value of Money, which began in the year 1707; and, therefore, there is reason to infer, that a considerable reduction of expense might be obtained by a proper revision of all Salaries, and by adjusting them to the new value of the Currency.
5 Rep. Com. Expen. 1810, p. 23. 36. That there is a total want of "that simplicity and uniformity in the Office Accounts of the Public Expenses, which is so essential to regularity and dispatch, and which ought to characterize a great system of Public Accounts.
37. That the Accounts of the Expenditure of the Army, Navy, and Ordnance, in the Annual Finance Accounts, being Accounts of Payments on Imprest, and not of the actual Expenditure for these Services, Parliament has no means of ascertaining how far the actual Expenditure tallies with the previous Estimate of it.
38. That the only Accounts of the actual Expenditure for these services are those which are laid before the Commissioners for auditing the Public Accounts; but as "the examination of these Accounts is delayed till a long period after the services are performed," they afford no practical assistance to Parliament to control the Public Expenditure.
4 Rep. com. Expen. 1810, p. 30. 39. That notwithstanding the positive enactments of various laws, and the great expense incurred by the establishment of the Commissioners for auditing the Public Accounts, the examination of them is greatly in arrear, and the "investigation of abuses and irregularities, intended by the new system of audit in 1806, has failed of producing any important practical consequence;" a circumstance which is chiefly to be attributed "to the complete authority which the Treasury exercises with regard to all articles of Account, whether of allowance or surcharge."
5. Rep. com. Expen. 1810, p. 17. 40. That this arrear may also be attributed in some degree to the intricacy occasioned by the practice of passing the Public Accounts, according to the course of the Exchequer, through a series of Offices in Exchequer form; "a proceeding altogether devoid of any public utility;" and which was declared to be so, and "pointedly reprobated," thirty-nine years ago, by the Commissioners of Accounts.
6 Rep. com'rs Acc'ts, p. 30. 41. That "although the Exchequer is an office of the highest antiquity, and entitled to the utmost respect, the change which has taken place in the manners, the customs, and above all, in the Finances of this this Nation, since the origin of this Office, renders new regulations necessary, with a view to an economical Reform.
42. That the Expenditure of so large a sum annually as 387,111l. in Bounties, is attended with no public good, and is inconsistent with every sound principle of political economy.
* Mr. Pitt's Spech, July 2, 1804. 43. That the advance of the Civil List, from 900,000l. to 1,030,000l. has been made from time to time, according as the value of money has become of late years more and more depreciated;* and that therefore there will be just cause for reducing it to its former amount, if the value of money shall again rise to its original standard.
44. That the Establishment of the Offices of the three Secretaries of
State amounted in the years 1796. — 1818.
15 Rep. Com. Fin. 1797, pp. 55, 57, 58. For the Home Department, to £17,792 £.31,973
For the Foreign Department, to 14,167 63,056
Sess. Pa. No. 114, 1819. For the War Department, to 7,865 27,851
39,824 122,880
45. That the Civil Government of Scotland amounted,
30 Rep. Com. fin. 1797, p. 97 In the year 1761, to £. 52,830
lb. In the year 1797, to 84,167
An. Fin. Pa. No. 5, 1818 In the year 1818, to 129,627
46. That the annual Expense of the Office of Lord Lieutenant, and the separate Executive Government of Ireland may be estimated at 100,000l.*
7 Rep Com. Expen. 1810, p. 163. * Expenditure in four years, to 1810, on Dublin Castle and Phœnix Park £.117,052
5 and 6 Rep. Com'rs Acc'ts, Ireland, 1815, 1816. * Expenditure in the year 1815 43,702
*Expenditure in the year 1816 16,113

47. That it appears to this House, from the Statements contained in the foregoing Resolutions, that a very important Reduction may be made in the Public Expenditure, without any detriment to the Public Service; and that this House will, early in the next Session of Parliament, take the same into its most serious consideration.

The first Resolution being put, the debate thereupon was adjourned till Monday.