COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY—NAVY ESTIMATES, &c. (Hansard, 1 February 1819)

§ Sir G. Warrender
said, he should only state, in moving the estimates for the havy, that the number of seamen would be the same as last year; yet a considerable saving had taken place in that branch of the public expenditure; and that saving had been effected by placing the whole of the naval force kept up in a state of activity, which supplied the deficiency of numbers and rendered their increase unnecessary. He then moved, 1. "That 20,000 men be employed for the sea service, for thirteen lunar months, from the 1st Jan. 1819, including 6,000 royal marines. 2. That 565,500l., be granted for wages of the said 20,000 men, at the rate of 2l. 3s. 6d. per man per month. 3. That 520,000l., be granted for victuals for the said 20,000 men, at the rate of 2l..per man per month. 4. That 533,000l. be granted for the wear and tear of the ships in which the said 20,000 men are to serve, at the rate of 2l. 1s. per man per month. 5. That 91,000l., be granted for ordnance for sea service on board the ships in which the said 20,000 men are to serve, at the rate of 7s. per man per month."

§ Mr. Birch
begged to take that opportunity of putting a question to ministers, whether it was in their contemplation to afford any relief to the navy, from the hardships of impressment? No season for such a proceeding could be more propitious than the present, when we were in a state of profound peace with all the world. The system of impressment was a stain upon the country.

§ Sir G. Warrender
said, he was well aware of the importance of the subject in all its bearings, and hoped that the House would not expect him to give any positive and distinct answer on the sudden. It was certainly a question to which ministers had turned their most anxious attention; but they felt also the danger of holding out any thing that might lead to misapprehension. Impressment was a part of the ancient system of the country, and though it certainly was attended with disadvantages and inconveniences, it had produced, he believed, far greater benefits than any evils it had occasioned. He had it in his power, however, to state, that effective measures had been taken to 196 ameliorate the condition of seamen, and by means of a registry of those who were receiving a sort of half-pay, to secure on an emergency a supply of sailors well acquainted with, and well fitted for, their duties. He trusted that the hon. gentleman would not require him to commit himself and ministers further at the present moment.

§ Lord Palmerston
then moved, "That a sum, not exceeding one million, be granted to his majesty, towards defraying the charge of his majesty's Land Forces for service at home and abroad (excepting the regiments employed in the Territorial Possessions of the East India Company), for the year 1819."

§ Mr. Calcraft
said, that he did not intend to oppose the motion, but he wished for a little explanation. The votes of the last year would have been exhausted on the 25th of December, and he begged to be informed how the operations of government had gone on from that date to the present without any new vote by parliament. At least a month's pay had become due to the army subsequent to the 25th of December last, and in what way had that been furnished?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer
observed, that as the hon. member's observations applied to all parts of the public service, he should beg leave to answer them. It was obvious, that if government were limited in the application of any grant to the exact period for which it had been voted, parliament would be always obliged to meet previous to the last day to which the votes extended. But his majesty's ministers always conceived they had the power of applying any sums that might remain, after discharging the expenses of the year, to that branch of the public service for which they had been granted. In the estimates, the charges were not made prospectively, but retrospectively, and on that account, balances, in many instances, necessarily remained, and a running account was kept up from one year to another. He did not see any irregularity in thus applying the surpluses of public money, provided the sums granted were always expended on that particular part of the service for which they had been voted.