Mr. Shaw, of Dublin, rose to bring under the consideration of the House, the extreme hardship which was felt in many parts of Ireland from the oppressive duty upon Windows and Carriages. The hon. member went into a variety of statements, to prove the severity of those taxes, especially that upon windows, and mentioned one case, where a person paying only 28l. a year for rent, paid 24l. to the window and hearth tax. The duty on windows was originally imposed as a war tax, and the war having ceased, he thought it was but common justice to relieve the people of that country from the further continuance of the tax. At least, if it could not be wholly repealed, he apprehended it would be very practicable to mitigate its operation, and he should therefore move, "That a committee be appointed to take into consideration the petitions from the city of Dublin, and other parts of Ireland, against the window tax and carriage tax."
§ Mr. Grattanexpressed his entire concurrence in the motion, and his conviction of the necessity that some consideration should be bestowed upon the subject. The persons who had petitioned against the tax, especially from Dublin, were all of them respectable householders, and a most rational, intelligent, and modest set of men. His idea was, that some regulation might be adopted, which would relieve the subject, without diminishing the resources of the country. In any opinion he entertained or might have expressed upon the subject of those taxes, he did not mean to cast the slightest imputation upon the motives or the integrity of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. V. Fitzgerald), at whose recommendation they were imposed. He had proved himself an honest servant of the Crown, mediating between it and the people, and doing justice to the one, 824 without agitating or oppressing the other. It was impossible, however, in so large a system of taxation, that some parts of it should not need correction, and any person might manifest a wish to obtain that correction, without throwing a blemish upon the individual by whom the system was proposed.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that though he differed in some respects from the views entertained by the hon. mover, yet he was most ready to do justice to the candid manner in which he had argued it. While, however, that House would feel disposed to attend to any particular inconveniences felt from the operation of a tax, they were equally bound to attend to the general burthen which must be borne by the whole empire. He thought the object of the hon. member would be best attained by referring the petitions to the committee of finance, rather than to any separate committee. The whole taxation of the country must come under the consideration of that committee; and he would, therefore, move as an amendment, that the said petitions be referred to the committee of finance.
§ Sir J. Newportsaid, if the House wished to have a fair examination of the matter, they would not consent to send the petitions to the finance committee One reason why he should object to doing so, was, because there was not, at most, more than one of two Irish members upon it, and though he had no doubt the members of that committee would do their duty, in what related to Ireland, as well as to England, yet, in a question affecting Ireland alone, he could not help thinking that Irishmen were most likely to be influenced by the necessary zeal and anxiety. There was another consideration. The business already before the committee was quite enough to occupy all its attention With respect to the taxes complained of, in condemning their operation, he disclaimed any intention of reproaching the right hon. gentleman who proposed them. He was called upon, by his situation, to make great exertions during the war; he did do so, and Ireland corresponded to them, by drawing upon her capital to meet his demands. But the war being over, she had a right to expect from the justice of England a remission of those claims.
Mr. V. Fitzgerald, in explaining the views which induced him to lay those taxes upon Ireland, admitted, that he believed there was no body of men more 825 entitled to relief than the petitioners, if that relief were consistent with the welfare of the empire at large; and he hoped the reference of the petitions to the finance committee would not operate in the way which the right hon. baronet apprehended.
Mr. Plunkettsaid, he thought it would be much better to understand at once whether it was likely any relief would be granted, rather than send the petitions to a committee, merely as a way of getting rid of them. No new light could be thrown upon the subject of them by any investigation before the finance committee. With respect to the window tax, it was certainly a war tax originally; but he did not therefore mean to say it should be struck off, though it certainly constituted some ground for complaint, and come claim for a mitigation of its assessments on the part of the petitioners. It was felt most severely in Dublin, where hundreds of persons were compelled to stop up their lights, thus excluding the fresh air, and causing the most deplorable consequences from contagious disorders. If no relief could be granted, in God's name let it be so declared, and they must submit to it, which would be infinitely better than deluding them with hopes that were never meant to be realized.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerreminded the House, that the assessed taxes of Ireland stood pledged for the payment of the interest upon its permanent debt. They had to consider, therefore, whether she could supply the means of defraying that charge, by the operation of a reasonable system of taxation. He was as desirous as any one to afford relief, if it could be done without diminishing the income of the country. The mode of effecting that would demand some inquiry, and he much doubted whether any inquiry could be made that would enable them to legislate upon the subject this session. That was the reason why he proposed to refer the petitions to the finance committee.
Mr. Maurice Fitzgeraldsaid, that he understood the Chancellor of the Exchequer to state that this tax stood pledged as a part of the permanent revenue of Ireland. That was impossible, as the act of parliament gave it an express duration of three years, or during the war. England, on the arrival of peace, had received as a boon a diminution of 17 millions of taxes, while to Ireland, whose means of meeting taxation were so reduced by the abrupt- 826 ness of that measure, nothing was granted but about 20,000l. in the repeal of certain duties. He would vote for a special committee; any other reference was but to smother disapprobation.
Sirs N. Colthurst and H. Parnell pressed the Chancellor of the Exchequer to send the subject to the examination of a special committee.
§ Mr. Broughamcontended it was the only practicable course, as by sending it to the finance committee either its other comparatively more important duties must be suspended, or no regard would be paid to the present subject.
Mr. V. Fitzgerald, to gratify all parties, would press on his right hon. friend, to accede to the motion.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerobserved, that he was not so wedded to his own opinion as to the manner of disposing of the present subject, as to decline taking the course most likely to gratify those gentlemen so intimately connected with Ireland. But he wished to say, that a plan had lately been before him for remodelling the whole system of the collection of the assessed taxes in Ireland, on which he had suspended his decision until he should avail himself of a local investigation on the spot.
§ Sir J. Newportsuggested the propriety in consequence of the information the House had just received, of withdrawing the motion. The presence of the chancellor of the exchequer, he sincerely trusted, would have the beneficial effect of establishing that long wanted desideratum in Ireland, an efficient check on the collectors of the public money.
§ The motion and amendment were then withdrawn.