Earl Seftonsaid, he had a Petition to present from the town of Liverpool, for he had no difficulty in terming it so, though the meeting was not regularly called. Though a requisition, most respectably signed, had been addressed to the mayor, he had unjustifiably refused to call the meeting, and had thus endeavoured to prevent that communication of the people to parliament, which it was as much the interest of the House as of the people to keep open. After this refusal of the mayor, the meeting was held in a public square of the town, and the 984 chair was taken by a most active, intelligent, and respectable magistrate, well known to many members of that House, colonel Williams. The business of the meeting was conducted with the utmost regularity and good humour, though a regiment of infantry, and a body of yeomanry cavalry, were drawn up near the meeting. The petition was signed by 14,000 inhabitants of the town, and he was convinced that never was a petition presented to that House more respectably signed. It would be idle to say that he knew all the persons who had signed it; but he was acquainted with many of them, among whom he was proud to reckon some of his particular friends. The petition stated the calamities under which the country laboured, which they stated to have arisen from unjust and unnecessary wars, which this country had been long engaged in; from the creation of new and useless places, and the existence of unmerited pensions and sinecures; and they threw themselves on the wisdom of the House for a radical but constitutional reform. Why the petitioners had selected him to present the petition, and had not sent it by the representatives of the town, he did not know, but he felt that a great honour was conferred on him, and he felt the more pleasure in doing so, because he heartily concurred in the prayer for radical constitutional reform, and not for the wild theories of which so much had been said.
§ Mr. Birchsaid, he held in his hand the names of those who had signed the requisition, than which none more respectable could be found in that town; and as to opulence, which had some weight in that House, there were many of the most wealthy persons in Liverpool. He should forbear saying any thing more after the speech of the noble earl, but as he had been requested to support that petition, he cheerfully bore testimony to the correctness of that statement.
§ Mr. Bensonwas anxious to clear the mayor of Liverpool from the aspersions cast upon him. That respectable magistrate had refused to sanction the meeting on account of the many riots which had taken place under the persons whom he expected to take the lead at that meeting. As to the regularity of the meeting, he thought the presence of the regiment of infantry and the troop of cavalry was enough to account for that circumstance. As to the persons who signed the requisi- 985 tion, he believed they were very respectable.
§ Mr. Birchwished to know, when those numerous outrages in Liverpool, to which the hon. member alluded, had taken place? For his own part he had never heard of them.
Lord Cochranesaid, as to the fears of the mayor of Liverpool respecting disturbances, he did not think the reformers had ever been guilty of so many disorders as those opposed to them. He was yesterday at a meeting in the county of Hampshire, held at Winchester, and of all the meetings at which he had been present, he had never witnessed such disorder as there prevailed. The meeting was held near the Cathedral, and the parsons had mustered with all their forces, and were the promoters of the outrageous proceedings to which the old Covent-garden meetings, with marrow bones and cleavers, were not to be compared. A meeting had been called of the whole inhabitants of the county to express their sentiments on the late atrocious attack on the Prince Regent, but when he and some others had attended to express their opinions as loyal subjects, they were told the meeting was confined to freeholders. No one was allowed to express his sentiments, and the meeting was broken up with such precipitation, that no arrangement was made for presenting the address, nor were the thanks moved to the sheriff, or the mover and seconder, according to custom. When he heard meetings for reform called disorderly and tumultuous, which in no case they had been, he could not help stating, that this was the most turbulent and riotous that ever he attended, and that the parsons were the ringleaders in the confusion.
Lord Fitzharrissaid, that as to the facts mentioned by the noble lord, he could correct him. Thanks had been moved to the sheriff, and arrangements had been made for presenting the address. The meeting was the most numerous he had ever seen in the county of Southampton, and the sheriff had declared that four or five hands to one had been held up for the address. All who were present were permitted to vote. As to the noise which prevailed, it was perfectly impartial, as no one was heard on the one side or the other.
Lord Cochranesaid, that he had heard nothing of the votes which the last speaker had mentioned, though he was within a yard of the sheriff—such was the noise which prevailed.
§ Mr. Broughamcalled upon the hon. member for Stafford to mention some of those outrages which he said had been committed by the people of Liverpool. If the hon. member had any facts to bring forward, he hoped he would do so; but if the thing was to rest upon the mere vague and gratuitous assertion of that hon. member, he trusted it would have no weight with any individual in the opinion he might form with regard to this petition.
§ Mr. Bensonsaid, he spoke from personal knowledge of the many tumultuous riots which had originated on the very spot where the meeting was held for the purpose of agreeing to the present petition. He was surprised the hon. and learned gentleman's memory was so short as to require specific instances, for he believed there never were greater or more notorious outrages committed in Liverpool than by the very mischievous mobs which the hon. and learned gentleman himself had headed. He did not mean to impute any mischievous designs to the hon. and learned member. He only said that the mobs were most mischievously inclined. He had been called upon by the hon. and learned gentleman to state instances, and he hoped he was satisfied with his explanation.
§ Mr. Broughamsaid, he should not tell the hon. member whether he was or was not satisfied with his explanation, but ho would call upon the right hon. member for Liverpool to give a direct negative to the assertion of the hon. gentleman opposite. He was sure the right hon. gentleman would do so, because he was incapable of saying one thing to him at Liverpool, and another in that House. For the first time in his life, a charge had now been brought against him for heading a mob notoriously disorderly, outrageous, and mischievous.
§ Mr. Bensonrose to order. He did not impute to the honourable and learned member any mischievous intentions.
§ Mr. Broughamsaid, he was aware the hon. member had not imputed mischievous designs to himself, but merely that the mob was mischievous. There were two ways, however, of imputing motives in that House; one, in a parliamentary manner, which could be met by a call to order; the other, where though nothing was explicitly charged, yet every one could understand what was meant to be implied. He should content himself with calling upon the right hon. gentleman op- 987 posite to declare, whether, at the particular time alluded to, when he (Mr. B) had the honour of standing a contested election with him for Liverpool, it was not the unanimous opinion on all sides, and of all parties, that there never was a contested election, where so many thousand persons were interested, conducted with so much quiet, tranquillity and order, from the beginning to the end. He might refer also to the gallant general, the other member for Liverpool, in corroboration of what he had stated. The phrase used by all the candidates at the close of the election was, that instead of a popular contest, it resembled rather a peaceful pageant. After the House heard what he now asserted, backed by the testimony of both the honourable gentlemen to whom he appealed, it would then be able to decide upon the question of the shortness of memory imputed to him.
§ General Gascoynesaid, he was perfectly ready to confirm all that had fallen from the hon. and learned member. During the twenty years in which he had been connected with the borough of Liverpool, and in which period he had witnessed many contested elections, he never recollected one in which there had been less Outrage than in that alluded to. He never witnessed a more general effort on the part of all the candidates to prevent any thing like riot and confusion, and he perfectly recollected the particular expression mentioned by the hon. and learned member.
Mr. Canningsaid, that in the contest alluded to, nothing was omitted on his part, and nothing, he believed, on the part of the hon. and learned gentleman, to repress every tendency to outrage and riot; and during the greater part of it, they were successful. He apprehended his hon. friend (Mr. Benson) was confounding the election which took place last year for Liverpool, and that which occurred in 1812. During the former, there was one continued scene of tumult and outrage for the first three or four days. With respect to the petition, he should be sorry to object to its being laid on the table. He could never wish to obstruct the progress of any petition from that town, which he had the honour to represent. The present one, however, was not from the town, but from the inhabitants, and he was glad it was so designated, or it might have been liable to technical difficulties. He had received an account of the way in which the 988 signatures to it had been obtained, which he did not mean to make a matter of discussion, for it was now practised on other similar occasions, and they had already debated the subject often enough. He was told, that of the 14,000 signatures which appeared, not only a great number of them were by the softer sex, but a still greater number by persons of the tenderest age [Hear! and a laugh]. He was far from mentioning that as a reason for rejecting the petition; on the contrary, it entitled it to be received with the greater indulgence. If ever there was a period when that moiety of the creation had a right to petition that House, it was the present, when the doctrine of universal suffrage was so popular; a doctrine, which if acted upon, could not, upon any fair principle which he saw, exclude them from their claim to a participation.
§ Mr. Broughamobserved, that if, as the right hon. gentleman supposed, his hon. friend behind him had confounded two different transactions, how did it happen that he had made him (Mr. B.) head the mobs, when he must have known that he was not at Liverpool in May last?
§ Mr. Bensonrepeated, that there were never greater mobs in Liverpool, than when the hon. and learned gentleman headed them. If the hon. and learned gentleman had not urged him for proofs, he should never have noticed the circumstance.
§ Mr. Brougham—Now the explanation of the hon. member is intelligible. If he merely means to say, that the persons whom I had the honour of addressing on that occasion, the persons who were kind enough to take an active part in the promotion of what they considered my interest, were remarkably numerous, I can have nothing to object to him.
§ The petition was then brought up. Upon the motion that it be read,
§ Mr. Curwenrose, to express his disapprobation of the manner in which, not only at Liverpool, but everyplace throughout the country, attempts were made to prejudge and stifle the voice of the people. They first refused to let them meet legally, and then when they assembled in any other way, the military were immediately called out, as if some insurrection were apprehended. Against such conduct, he should always think it his duty to protest.
§ The petition was read, and ordered to lie on the table.