PRINCE REGENT'S MESSAGE RESPECTING LORD COLCHESTER.

Mr. Wynn
expressed his astonishment at the mode of proceeding adopted by the advisers of the Crown on this occasion. No body would concur more willingly in a vote of thanks to lord Colchester than himself, because it appeared to him to be a just and necessary proceeding: but why did the Crown interfere to prevent the House from going farther, and from originating any other reward which was due to his acknowledged merits? His services had been performed in that House, and from that House, therefore, ought their recompense to proceed. The only similar case was that of Mr. Speaker Onslow, and in that case the proceeding was initiated by an address from the House to the throne. This was not a mere question upon a point of form; it was not a matter of indifference that persons sitting in that chair should be accustomed to look to the Crown for the reward of their exertions in it. Strictly speaking, the Crown could know nothing of what passed in that House, nor be able to appreciate the merits of the Speaker in the discharge of the duties of the chair. Had the message been preceded by an address, every objection would have been precluded; but the services in question were of that nature which, for peculiar reasons, ought, in the first instance, to be fully recognized and appreciated by the House [Hear, hear!].

Lord Castlereagh
hoped the House would do ministers the justice to believe that it never could be their wish or intention to stand between the liberality of the House and the individual in question; but that right hon. person having been raised to the dignity of the peerage, the purport of the message ought to be understood as inviting the House to make a provision in consideration of the title, and not of his services as Speaker. [Cries of No no!].

Mr. Ponsonby
professed himself quite astonished at the explanation offered by the noble lord. How he could say on his legs in that House, that the proposed reward was not in consequence of the late Speaker's services, or how, being in what was vulgarly called a scrape, he could endeavour so to get out of it, was to him a most surprising incident. The very words of the message itself declared that it was founded upon those services. The Crown had not, in fact, any constitutional right to take notice of their Speaker's services, and it was a flagrant violation of their first privileges in ministers to have thus advised it. He knew not what course it might be now most expedient to pursue, but he hoped the House would not cease to maintain its constitutional and established rights. [Hear hear!].

§ Mr. H. Sumner
stated his objections to the present form of proceeding but saw no way of getting out of the difficulty into which ministers had led them. He entertained even a farther objection: whatever had been the intention of the noble lord, the fact was, that the message did stand between their late Speaker and the liberality of the House. It was true that a blank was left with regard to the sum, but the term of the grant, namely, for two lives, was distinctly recommended.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer
thought it could not be supposed that any disrespect to the House was intended by taking the earliest opportunity of proposing an adequate reward of the services which the House had received from the noble lord in his late office of Speaker of that House. He could not conceive that the prerogative of the Crown had been improperly exercised in carrying such a purpose into effect. Whenever the rank of the peerage had been conferred in recompense of distinguished merit, the Crown had been in the custom of sending similar messages. It was done in the case of the duke of Wellington, and had always 887 been understood to be the settled and necessary form of enabling that House to carry into effect the wishes of the Crown.

Mr. Wynn
declared, that under the circumstances of the case he felt it his duty to oppose the present motion. Trusting that the House would proceed to accomplish the same purpose by an address in the first instance, should the present motion be negatived or withdrawn, he thought such a course would be infinitely more honourable to the noble lord whose merits were the ground of such a proceeding. He could see no analogy between this case and that of naval or military services. Of these last the Crown was the natural and proper judge, but could not be of services rendered in that House. The Crown had already the power of granting a pension for life; and had this power been exercised on this occasion, he knew no legal objection that could have been urged against it: but all would admit that it must have been a very ill-advised proceeding. Such a mark of favour would have been a very inadequate compliment for the occasion. The House was the theatre of the services performed, and ought not to seem as if it wanted to be put in mind of the obligations it was under. Neither ought it to be held out to future Speakers that they were to look elsewhere for their reward. He had so decided an objection to the course proposed by ministers, that if the motion were pressed, he would meet it either by a direct negative, or by moving the previous question. He entreated, however, in honour and justice to the late Speaker, that the House would not be pressed to such an alternative, that the ministers would see the necessity of withdrawing the present motion, and substituting in its place an address similar to the one adopted in Speaker Onslow's case.

Mr. V. Fitzgerald
contended, that no want of respect to lord Colchester could be argued from the present proceedings. Without presuming to give an opinion on the precedents, he must say, that it was at all events a struggle between the Crown and the House, which should best appreciate the acknowledged services of that distinguished character. It was impossible to infer that the Crown had not the means of being informed of those services, when it was well ascertained that on the many occasions of re-election, when the late Speaker was presented for the approbation of the Crown, an explicit declara- 888 tion was made of the high sense of his services.

§ Sir John Newport
agreed in all that had fallen from his hon. friends in reprobation of this novel and unconstitutional procedure. He contended, that the remuneration so justly due to the late Speaker would be more honourably conferred by the unanimous address of that House, than by the suggestion of any minister.

§ Mr. Huskisson
considered, that the precedent of lord Onslow's case stood upon different circumstances. At present the Crown had no funds at its disposal beyond a pension for life of 1,200l. If, therefore, an address was presented, this was all that could be done, and the Crown must again refer the matter to the House. In the former case, the Crown had the power of granting a pension of 3,000l. a year for life; and was thus very differently situated.

Mr. Wynn
said, he had never imagined that the Crown could proceed in this case without the authority of the House; but if an address were presented, praying that a suitable reward should be conferred, a message might then be brought down stating the existing limitations on the power of granting pensions, and the House would, then have it in its power to supply the deficiency. But these were mere technical points; the main objection was, that the first knowledge they received of a remuneration to be given for services performed in the chair of that House, should have come from the Crown. He would repeat his anxious wish that the motion should be withdrawn, and another substituted, that would meet the wishes of every member in that House.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer
admitted the candour of the hon. gentleman's intimation. The great object on all sides, he apprehended, must be, to do that which would be most gratifying to the feelings of the distinguished person immediately interested. If it was the pleasure of the House to adjourn the consideration for the present [Cries of No, no!], he apprehended then that it might be the most satisfactory course to withdraw the motion he had already made, and give notice of his intention to move an address to the Crown on this subject on Thursday next.

PRINCE REGENT'S MESSAGE RESPECTING LORD COLCHESTER.—