§ Lord Miltonpresented a petition from Dewsbury, in Yorkshire, praying for retrenchment and reform. The noble 332 lord, in presenting it, observed, that it was honourably distinguished, both by the temper it manifested and the manner in which it was drawn up, from many of those to which the House had lately listened. It proceeded from people who felt what they expressed, who followed their own sentiments in their application to parliament, and did not frame their distresses or their remedies after models transmitted them from London. It prayed that there might be a reformation in the Commons House of Parliament, and that the representation of the people might be fuller and more extensive than it was, and this was the only part of the petition in which he could not heartily concur. In all that portion of it which called for economy and retrenchment it had his unqualified approbation, and should have his strenuous support. He was reminded while he was on this subject of what was communicated to the House last night, concerning the conduct of a noble marquis in surrendering his great emoluments—a conduct which he would characterise as no less honourable to himself, than he was sure it would be beneficial to the country. By giving up his enormous sinecure, he had conferred a benefit far beyond the value of the sum itself. He had done much to redeem the character of public men from the aspersions so industriously attempted to be thrown upon them. He trusted that the example of the noble marquess would be generally followed, that the public irritation would thereby be allayed, and that such sacrifices would erase from the minds of the people those baneful impressions against public men which it was the object of the wicked and the designing to create.
§ Lord Lascellesconcurred with his noble colleague in the account given of the petition and the petitioners. He held in his hand a letter stating the circumstances in which it was voted. It had not been handed about for signatures, but, with the exception of one individual, had been signed on the spot. The petitioners stated, that they knew the sentiments of the county members on the subject of parliamentary reform, but they nevertheless had such confidence in them that they would intrust them with their petition. The petition he described as most respectable in its character, and respectful to the House. Besides other grievances it complained of the burthen of poor-rates.
Lord Castlereaghbegged to say a few 333 words regarding that part of the noble lord's speech, in which he had alluded to the conduct of a noble marquess in surrendering the emoluments of his sinecure. The conduct of that noble marquess was truly honourable, and deserved all the praise which it had called forth. As he had stated last night, the noble marquess had wished, for some time, for an opportunity of resigning, and had seized the first that occurred in which he could do so without appearing to be driven by clamour to surrender an undoubted right—a vested interest, which parliament had regarded as inviolate, and with which it never had claimed a power of interfering. This was the only remaining office in which there was a vested interest of great public importance, which, in consequence of its nature and tenure, had not undergone regulation. There was another, indeed,—the office of registrar of the admiralty—which had excited much public observation, and concerning which there were many mistakes; but it must be evident to every reflecting person, that since the cessation of war, the emoluments of that office were extremely diminished, if not annihilated, and might not exceed a regulated salary. The noble marquis had therefore, by his conduct, given up the last of those offices which, from their nature, the legislature abstained from regulating, and had thus closed for ever that list of places, and the imputations against those who held them. It was given to his father for great public services, and professional sacrifices; it was respected in every plan of reform or regulation; and it stood on a principle which parliament refused to touch. The noble marquess was pleased to surrender its emoluments from his own spontaneous movement, when he saw that his motives could not be misinterpreted, that he should sanction no objectionable principle, and that in making a sacrifice he should only be following the example of the highest quarter.
§ Mr. Broughamprofessed himself greatly disappointed at what had just fallen from the noble lord opposite. Whether it would be so felt by the House, or by the well-provided body of sinecurists for whose immediate consolation it was addressed, he would not undertake to determine. In common with others, he had felt the greatest satisfaction at the communication which had been made last night; but he did expect, that an example so nobly and manfully opened by his 334 royal highness the Prince Regent, and so properly adopted by the noble marquess, would have extended to the lower departments of official emolument, and that the concession would not alone consist of the sacrifice of one enormous office (which, being now no more, he would not insult its memory), but would be followed up by other sinecurists, whose emoluments, though not so great, were equally censurable. These hopes, so fondly excited, were now too early damped. It looked as if the noble lord had got at once alarmed, lest the example should contagiously spread; lest, in the first place, the whole list of sinecurists, should quit the field; and, secondly, lest the alarm should discomfit the regular supporters of ministers, who looked forward for something comfortable, and aspired to the honour of being members of that political family in which there was great pay and no work. If such apprehensions existed among these worthy personages, the speech just delivered by the noble lord was well calculated to calm their anxiety. He, however, had heard h with great regret, from a full conviction that the only effectual cure for existing evils, was a fair and proper concession in this respect to the just demands of the people. He regretted that so good an opportunity was lost as the example of the Prince Regent presented of allaying popular irritation, and convincing the people of the virtue of public men.
§ The petition was ordered to lie on the table.
Lord Cochranerose to present a petition, most numerously signed by the inhabitants of Glasgow, praying for economy in the public expenditure, and reform in parliament. The petition had been sent to him accompanied with a letter, which contained an interesting account of the present distresses of that district, and to which the attention of the House would, he trusted, be directed. It appeared from that letter, that such were the distresses of the middling and lower classes of the community, that they were not able to support their children at school, and in consequence of this, two Lancasterian school-rooms, erected at a considerable expense, were now actually advertised for sale. The same was the wretched state of the other schools, parents finding it utterly impossible to pay for their children's education. When the desire of every Scotsman to have his children educated was known, the distress of that country might easily be imagined 335 from what he had now stated. The petition stating the grievances of the inhabitants, was expressed in the most respectful and moderate manner, earnestly requesting the House to listen to the piteous detail which their sufferings compelled them to give, and to put an end to unnecessary sinecures, and to grant a more equitable representation in parliament. The House, it was well known, was composed of too many placemen and sinecurists, and he confessed he was at a loss to know with what right these sinecurists imposed burthens on the people. They did not impose those burthens on themselves, for they drew much more from the public purse than they paid for taxes. They had therefore no right whatever to impose burthens on others, in which they took no share. He was sorry to hear what was stated by the noble secretary of state last night, respecting the motives which had induced a noble marquis to delay resigning his sinecure. It seemed the noble marquis had waited till an example was shown him, and had therefore followed the example of his Royal Highness. But he was at a loss to know what relation existed between the holder of a sinecure and the head of government. The latter, in consequence of his high situation, had a right to what he received, and any thing he chose to resign was a boon on his part to the people; but the former had not the most distant claim or title to what he enjoyed. He believed, however, the noble marquess had resigned it purely from what had passed at public meetings, and from what he had thence collected to be the general feeling of the country. Had he, however, done what he had now done, only a little sooner, he was sure that his example would have had as much authority out of doors, as that of the Speaker had within doors. He would not at present trespass further on the time of the House, but would only add that the petition he now held in his hand was most respectably signed, and that it could not be said the signatures attached to it were those of illiterate persons. Every man who knew Glasgow, knew how well the people were educated there. He would further observe, that he had now lying near him, twenty petitions expressed in different terms, but all containing one common sentiment. They prayed for annual parliaments, which certainly were preferable to those triennial ones so much extolled by some. Certainly triennial parliaments 336 would have this advantage, that the seats then to be held would be purchased for half their price, and would be held for half the time; but were annual parliaments to be held, there would be no example of votes being given, as was the case last night, nor would members be called down from a coffee-house, as he was told was repeatedly done. Never did the House or the public witness a more flagrant instance of this shameful practice than last night. He concluded by moving that the petition be brought up.
§ Mr. Wilberforcesaid, he was extremely anxious to say a few words after what had just fallen from the noble lord. He thought it was but proper, when the sinecure of marquess Camden was talked of, that the consideration on which that sinecure was given, should be attended to. No doubt whatever could exist, that rewards were necessary to be given to those who had held offices; as for example, he would say, that such an office as that of lord chancellor deserved to be rewarded. That office was certainly one of a most laborious nature, and was given to an individual whose eminent talents and practice at the bar had justly entitled him to public confidence. Such a man necessarily made many sacrifices of private interest when he was called to fill this high situation: which, be it remembered, was extremely different in its nature and tenure from the office of a judge, being partly connected with politics, and at all events an office only held during pleasure. Now, such an office, with such an uncertainty attending the time it might be held, certainly entitled the person who held it to some remuneration from the public, in consideration not only of the exertions lie made, and the services he had rendered to the public, but also of the great sacrifices he had made on entering the office. The late lord Camden, it was well known, had held the office of lord high chancellor, and surely he might say, that never was there any man more justly esteemed for his indefatigable zeal in the public service, for the prudence and activity with which he discharged all his public and private duties, as well as for his eminent legal attainments. None could be more revered than he was for excellency of character, and integrity of heart and life. He had in the early part of his life been honoured with the kind attentions of that amiable and much lamented nobleman, and could not avoid giving this humble 337 tribute of affection to his memory. He had held that office but a very short time, and on his resigning it, had this appointment of 2,700l. given him for one life, which as he was then far advanced in years, he had taken for his son. The noble lord who presented this petition had surely had repeated opportunities of knowing that the provision now very properly made by parliament for lord chancellors, was 4,000l., which was 1,300l. more than was given to lord Camden. An opportunity was lately afforded him of knowing this in the generous and disinterested offer of his worthy right hon. friend (Mr. Ponsonby) to resign a part of the 4,000l. which he had as a reward for what ho had done. And here he begged to say, that never on any occasion had he defended sinecures, on the contrary, the House knew that he had even voted for an inquiry into the emoluments of the sinecure held by the noble marquess, though perhaps against his own (Mr. W.'s) feelings. In speaking of sinecures, he thought no obloquy whatever could be justly thrown on those to whom such sinecures had been given as a reward for public services, nor could they, with any justice, be called to give them up. Parliament, he was sure, would never withdraw such proper rewards. He greatly rejoiced, however, at the noble example which his royal highness the Prince Regent had set, and which, he trusted, would be followed in every department; and he could not help differing from his worthy friend (Mr. Brougham), who had rather fallen into the language of despondency. It was surely not reasonable to say that because only one star had risen above the horizon, we should not see more. He had no doubt the noble example would be followed, and he thought it had not as yet been followed, merely because those holding sinecures had not had time and opportunity given them to follow it. He anticipated their soon coming forward, and gladly hailed the pleasing prospect which would thereby be afforded to the country.
§ Mr. Broughamwould only say one word, after what had been stated by his hon. and truly respected friend. He had certainly been much cheered by what his hon. friend had advanced, and confessed a ray of light had now dawned on the gloomy horison. He was rejoiced to be delivered from that state of despondency into which the speech of the noble secretary of state had thrown him, and which, he was confident, had produced similar effects on many 338 who heard it. He trusted the pleasing prospect his hon. friend had held out would be happily realized, and he was confident it would give much satisfaction to the country. No man could hesitate a moment in saying that any pecuniary compensation was inadequate, in every point of view, to the eminent services, splendid talents, and uncommon exertions of the late truly patriotic lord Camden. For such services as his no salary, no reward, could be too great. Yet, between his case and those who held other sinecures, there necessarily existed a strong distinction. This was the well earned tribute of gratitude which this country had assigned him. Theirs was only the fruits of court favour, to which they had no claim on account of their own exertions; and surely if the descendant of the man who had earned it so nobly, now so generously sacrificed it for the public service, the reflection must strike those very strongly who persevere in holding sinecures to which they have not one shadow of title.
§ The petition was ordered to lie on the table.