§ Sir Henry Parnellrose, in 1090 pursuance of his notice, to move for an Address to the Prince Regent, praying that his Royal Highness would be pleased to institute a commission of inquiry into the nature and character of certain societies, called Orange Lodges, in Ireland. He was induced to make this motion in consequence of several Petitions for this inquiry having been put into his hands, by respectable bodies in the North of Ireland, who were extremely anxious for a consideration of this question last session; but he at that time preferred that the subject should be allowed to rest with his Majesty's Government, in the expectation of their interference to prevent any necessity of that kind. Nothing, however, had been done by ministers; and it was now full time that the matter should receive fair and ample discussion. The House was aware that, the system of Orangeism in Ireland, comprehended nearly the whole of the Protestants in the northern counties; in those parts all the higher and middle classes were Protestant, and all the lower order were Catholics. The Orange Lodges were here divided into districts of five lodges each, appointing masters, and their several other officers. These were united together by an oath to defend King George the Third and his successors, as long as he or they maintained the Protestant ascendancy; their secretary was also sworn not to give, a copy of their secret rules, except to a member. By this the House would see that the parties consisted of a set of men bound to the state by a sort of conditional allegiance to be construed by themselves, and also with a set of secret rules which were not to meet the light, except among their own body. In the present session no less than fourteen Petitions had been presented to Parliament by himself and his right hon. friend (sir John Newport) who was then absent, all of which ardently implored the attention, of the Legislature against those associations. Those Petitions, amongst other allegations, contained the following—"That to the existence of Orange Lodges in Ireland, was mainly attributable the disturbance of the public peace, particularly, by the celebration of processions with certain insignia, &c.—that besides the agitation which those necessarily produced, they begot a counter spirit among the people, that led to wide animosities, which, in their consequences, produced riots, murder, and other fatal acts, and 1091 also to the formation of fresh and equally illegal associations. They also paralised the administration of justice in the country, by prejudicing, and in some instances involving the integrity of the magistracy, and extending, even to the minds of jurors, a bias which was most injurious to the cause of justice—fatal instances of the operation of such feelings were practically known."
This, resumed the hon. baronet, is the general character of those associations. Formerly, doubts were entertained of the legality of such bodies; but those were now happily removed; for, in an objection taken to a juror at the trial of Dr. Sheridan, the Catholic delegate, which took place two years ago in Dublin, it was distinctly laid down by the learned Judge Day, who presided, that Orange Societies, bound together by secret oaths, were illegal. It was also the opinion of Judge Fletcher, one of the most upright, and enlightened men on the bench, that those meetings were unquestionably illegal. That learned judge had expressed himself as follows:—"I have found that those Orange Lodges have produced the most mischievous effects in society; that they have induced magistrates to violate their duty; and I do not hesitate to affirm, that they ought to be suppressed, for there can be no doubt that all combinations of this kind are contrary to law."
These concurrent judicial opinions entitled him (sir H. Parnell) to say, that the Orange Societies were illegal; and he was therefore induced to call upon the House to institute a commission to inquire into the allegations of petitioners upon such a subject. It would not, he trusted, refuse an inquiry into the truth of the alleged grievances, which would bring the whole subject to issue. It was unnecessary for him to press upon their attention, that when, two years ago, an attempt had been made to introduce the Orange system into this country, Parliament interfered, and, in the course of the discussion which then took place, the member for Liverpool (Mr. Canning) declared, that it was unnecessary to press the question to a division, as a distinct declaration of the illegality of such meetings, made by his Majesty's ministers, would produce the desired effect. A noble lord (Castlereagh) said, upon that occasion, that he entirely admitted the opinion which prevailed as to the illegality of such institutions; and trusted that the good sense of the country 1092 would re-echo the feeling of Parliament, and prefer the empire of the law to the domination of clubs and factious associations. Such were the opinions expressed in that debate; but to show how inoperative they were in Ireland, he had to state, that within a few days after such sentiments were expressed in Parliament, a meeting of the Grand Orange Lodge took place in Dublin, which issued a sort of proclamation to its brethren, calling upon them virtually to resist this feeling, and to rally for the preservation of their existence. The hon. baronet stated, it would be unnecessary for him to trespass further upon the attention of the House. With, reference to the subject before them, he trusted he had said enough to show that the law was quite clear on the point, and also that their own opinion was equally manifest. The right hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Peel) would not, he hoped, give the motion any opposition; for he, of all men, from his official station, must be exposed to a variety of bickerings from the existence of this spirit in Ireland, which, of course, he must wish to suppress. The hon. baronet concluded by moving.
"That an humble Address be presented to his royal highness the Prince Regent, requesting that he will be graciously pleased to appoint a Commission to inquire into the proceedings of the Orange Societies in the north of Ireland."
Mr. Peelsaid, it would be unnecessary to detain the House long in showing that, even if the facts were true which the hon. baronet stated, no good could possibly arise from the agitation of the present subject. It was wholly inexpedient, and its introduction at this moment highly injurious. He gave full credit to the consistency of the hon. baronet, in thus bringing forward his motion; at all events, the charge of precipitation would be the last which he would adduce against him, for it seemed to be a part of his system to make this motion at so late a period of the session, as to enable him to make a speech, without, at the same time, incurring the risk of creating the injurious effect which the adoption of his motion was calculated to produce. This had been the practice of the hon. baronet during the last three years, for he allowed the House almost to terminate its sitting before he gave notice of his usual motion on this subject. But what good could arise from the adoption of his proposition? What effect could it produce? The House 1093 was, forsooth, to appoint an extraordinary commission, to inquire into what—why, into the truth of certain facts which were loosely alleged in a petition, and into the truth or incorrectness of the opinions of a learned judge. If this commission were instituted, it would only operate to the exasperation of irritations which were already too much to be lamented. In that case they would only have appointed commissioners to receive the exaggerated details of both parties, and to review judicial cases which had already received the formal decision of the law. The hon. baronet had, in fact, himself shown the absurdity of his motion; for he had, upon the authority of the two judges, declared, that the law was quite clear on the point, and that from a book which he conceived authority, those Societies were exposed to its penalties. If these points were so clearly established, it followed, of course, there was no necessity for the motion, as the existing powers were sufficient for the purposes of suppressing the evil. Besides, the Crown could only empower the committee to inquire, not to punish. On the principle of the measure, it was rather unfair for the hon. baronet to call upon the House to ascertain the truth of allegations which he himself should have probed before he founded upon them a motion of such a description. If his object was to attack the Irish Government for the exercise of any particular partiality, let him come forward with a distinct proposition to that effect, stating the instance in which mercy was shown to one party, or severity exercised towards another, without strong and adequate cause. If the hon. baronet adopted this course, he would be ready and willing to meet him on it. As to saying that the Irish Government did not interfere in the prevention of public outrage, it was wholly unsupported by the fact; for they had, upon all occasions, conducted prosecutions at the public expense for the complainants, without any distinction. If the hon. baronet had any specific charge, let him produce it; but even if his present statements were true, he would contend that the motion was altogether unnecessary.
Mr. M. Fitzgerald(knight of Kerry) expressed his cordial assent to the reasonable and natural proposition of his hon. friend. He denied that any charge of tardiness could fairly be brought against him, and also that his object was to call on the House to appoint a commission: it 1094 was no such thing, it was for the Crown, not for them, to institute the inquiry. To call for the consent of the House to the motion, it was only necessary for them to refer to the numerous petitions which had been presented on this subject; they would, then see that the prevalence of the Orange system in Ireland impeded the general administration of justice, and disturbed the peace of the community in Ireland. It was also essential for them to know, that those petitions were not the ex parte statements of Catholics, but the allegations of Presbyterians and Quakers—sects not very favourable to Catholics,—in the northern countries. The prayer of such, petitioners formed a serious ground for inquiry, and one which did not deserve to be treated with the levity of the right hon. gentleman opposite. For his own part, he firmly believed that, whilst no inquiry was allowed, the laws could not be impartially administered in Ireland. One society would be found to engender another, until the whole community would be split into factions, which would wholly outstep any effort to administer the laws in the manner they ought to be. Upon, this point he spoke from his own personal experience; for he had known instances when it was mercy to appeal to martial law, sooner than consign the individual to trial before an ordinary jury—so completely had the parties in society arrived at hostile contact with each other. If the House meant that Ireland should be in any other state than perpetual anarchy, they must alter the system pursued towards that country—they must follow the course adopted by former Administrations; such, for instance, as was pursued by the marquis Cornwallis, lord Hardwicke, and the duke of Bedford: at those periods the laws were more impartially administered than at previous and subsequent ones; not that he meant to attribute, either to the duke of Richmond or lord Whitworth, any wish, to depart from the fairest and most liberal course, but he could not disguise his opinion—that the laws were not as generally exercised towards all parties in the community as they ought to be, owing to a sort of implied encouragement which was attributed to certain quarters, relative to the Orange system. He had once been connected with an Administration in Ireland which adopted a different policy. "You, yourself, Sir,"—(particularly addressing the Speaker)—"whatever may be your general opinion upon religious li- 1095 berty, when connected with the Irish Government, refused to countenance associations of this character, or to encourage a sort of religious partisanship which would, in its consequences, have cut up the whole system of the administration of justice by Juries." The right hon. gentleman then pressed upon the attention of those whose station in the Irish. Government rendered them more interested in the oblivion of party feeling, than any other persons in society, to use their interposition in procuring that Inquiry which would put an end to those divisions which so unhappily existed in that country. He also repeated the testimony which was invariably borne by the Judges, to the impartial and enlightened decision of Juries in the county where he resided; and this was solely attributable to the exclusion of all civil differences in the formation of those Juries.
Mr. Vesey Fitzgeraldsaid, that, in opposing the present motion, he would exercise the same candid feeling that had always, he trusted, marked his conduct in public life. While he gave credit to the temperate manner in which his hon. friend opposite had introduced this motion, he could not but lament that the same spirit had not actuated his right hon. friend who had spoken last, and who seemed, by his argument, to adapt a former state of civil convulsion in Ireland to the present, which was wholly dissimilar. It had been said, with truth, by his right hon. friend (Mr. Peel), that no necessity existed for this motion, because loose and general allegations in a petition were not sufficient authority to influence that House in the appointment of such a commission, particularly as no distinct charge was adduced against those who were in the administration of justice. As to the charge of partisanship, so indiscreetly hinted at in the government of the duke of Richmond, or that of his successor, he felt no hesitation in saying, that there never existed a government in Ireland so free from such an imputation as that of either of those Viceroys, against whose government the observation had been applied. The right hon. gentleman who spoke last, had expressed his surprise that those associations were not extinguished in Ireland by the present Administration. Now, he would ask, why this suppression did not take place in the former governments, to which allusion was made? In some of those a rigour beyond the law had been exercised, 1096 and he believed necessarily exercised, and yet those societies had not been extinguished. He disclaimed on the part of his right bon. friend (Mr. Peel) any levity towards a question of this kind; at the same time he was unwilling to admit that the cause of justice had been impeded by the circumstances which were stated. There were no grounds for the formation of a commission; and the revival of such topics were, in his opinion, calculated to create more mischief than could be effected even by the operation of those evils which the motion was intended to remove.
Colonel Archdallsaid, that there were other societies more obnoxious to the public peace than the Orangemen, such as Ribbonmen and others; and why had not the hon. baronet included them in his motion? He thought such a question calculated to keep alive the animosities which the hon. baronet condemned; and he trusted that the House would not countenance any such attack upon a body of loyal individuals, as the Orangemen had proved themselves to be.
§ Sir H. Parnellsaid, that the observations of the hon. member who had last spoken, showed the necessity of his motion; for it appeared that one party was armed against another, and that Government had not thought proper to interpose. But the hon. gentleman was historically incorrect, if he meant to state that the Orange system arose out of the Ribbonmen. On a reference to the state of Ireland for the last twenty years, it would be found, that Orange Lodges were long antecedent to the existence of Ribbonmen; that the latter, in fact, had grown out of the oppression of the former, and were created as a sort of defence (unquestionably illegal) against their lawless violence. The hon. baronet then defended himself from the imputation of unnecessary delay in the introduction of this question; his only reason for postponing it was an expectation, which, he lamented to find, had not been realised, that an opportunity would have been taken, by those who could have done it with effect, of rendering his present proposition unnecessary. He disclaimed intending any political recrimination in bringing forward the present motion—his only object being to prevent the recurrence of those monstrous outrages which were daily passing in several parts of Ireland. He denied that he had given an exaggerated statement relative to the influence of party prejudice upon 1097 the minds of jurors in Ireland—several cases were known, in which verdicts had been given against the direct feeling of the Judge: in proof of this, he need only refer to the observation made, upon one of those occasions, by the acting Judge, solicitor-general Bushe, who, when he received a verdict of this kind on the trial of some persons charged with having committed murder, in a riot in the county of Down, observed—"Gentlemen, this is your verdict—thank God it is not mine!" From these circumstances, it was evident, that the violations of law, to which he alluded, had sprung from the countenance given to Orange Societies, and that they were the real origin of other equally lamentable factions in the community.
§ Sir George Hillcontended, that in the province of Ulster, justice was as fairly administered as it was in any county in England. It appeared rather strange, that those petitioners should complain of their being inadmissible to societies, which they themselves pronounced to be illegal. For his own part, he never was an Orangeman, nor an encourager of their system; but he knew, that in obedience to the feeling of Parliament, those institutions had been circumscribed, and deprived, in some degree, of their badges. The fact, however, was, that the Protestants of the North of Ireland, were the parties who ought really to complain. No later than last week, a declaration, explanatory of the extent of organization among Ribbonmen, was signed by 1200 persons at Londonderry, who complained of the systematic scenes of riot and murder which were practised among mountaineer Catholics in that district, and exclusively directed against Protestant inhabitants. The hon. baronet then referred to certain riots which had taken place in Derry, which had become the subject of legal investigation and punishment; and further added, that in delicacy to the feelings of temperate and respectable Catholics in that town, the yeomanry corps, who were in the habit of celebrating the anniversary of the siege of Derry, assembled without the badges which they had been accustomed, for nearly a century, to wear on this occasion. He concluded by bearing testimony to the impartiality of Protestant jurors, so far as he had an opportunity of knowing them.
§ The question being loudly called for, the House divided: when the numbers were— 1098
| For the Motion | 20 | |
| Against it | 89 | |
| Majority against it | — | 69 |