ARMY EXTRAORDINARIES. (Hansard, 1 June 1814)

Mr. Fremantle
rose, and expressed his surprize that nothing had yet been intimated to the House, or the country, respecting any proposed reduction of our war-expenditure in the army, or in any other department. It was hard, he thought, that, after the country had borne so many burthens which that House had concurred in imposing, no prospect was held out to the House or the country of the diminution of those burthens, notwithstanding the various opportunities which had for some time back occurred of presenting such a prospect. Two months had elapsed since Buonaparté was deposed; yet no reduction of our military expence had yet taken place, nor had any declaration been made by ministers, to cheer the people by the hope of that which they were naturally induced to calculate would be the immediate consequence of that deposition. Thus the people, after all those sufferings which they had borne with unexampled patience, were denied that consolation or prospect of relief which they had a right to expect. The hon. member particularly complained that no step whatever was taken to reduce the militia, which amounted to nearly 100,000 men, of which about 2,500 were serving abroad. This militia was confessedly embodied with a view to repress internal insurrection, and to guard against foreign attack. Of the latter it could not be pretended that any 1043 fear existed since the destruction of the dynasty of Buonaparté; and he would put it to any gentleman whether the least ground of apprehension appeared with respect to the former? From the moment then of Buonaparté's dethronement, the country should have been relieved from the expence created by the militia, which expence amounted to between 3 and 4 millions a year. Every hour, indeed, which this part of our force continued embodied, the country was subjected to unnecessary expence. There was also another part of our force, to which every principle of economy and national policy should direct the attention of ministers. There were between 30 and 40,000 foreign troops in our pay, and that portion of them which were now in England ought to be promptly reduced. In the naval department too, some steps should have been taken with a view to reduction; for safely it could not be necessary to maintain the same amount of force in commission at present, as for some time back. At least ministers should, for the satisfaction of the country, have declared an intention to reduce the public expenditure in this and the other departments to which he had referred; or have stated their reasons for continuing such expenditure, in what might be fairly deemed a period of peace, as the country was called upon to defray during war. Some communication was certainly due to parliament and the public upon the subject. There was another head of expence to which he also thought it necessary to advert. He was informed—indeed he had the information from some emigrants—that ministers had announced their intention of continuing to all the emigrants their usual allowance for 12 months longer, instead of leaving them to depend upon their own industry, or upon the resources of their respective countries. The hon. member recapitulated the several points to which he had adverted; and observed, that ministers had betrayed a want of alacrity, and a remissness to execute their duty, and satisfy the feelings of the country. Recurring to the militia, he stated that the colonels of that corps were not yet apprised of any steps to disembody them; nay, it was alleged that it was not intended to disembody the militia for some months. He hoped this allegation was incorrect; and he should be gratified if what he had stated served to force some satisfactory explanation from ministers. The necessity which 1044 called for such an explanation could not be disputed, especially when the amount of our war-expenditure was taken into consideration. He did not mean, in so thin a House, to enter into detail as to this expenditure; but the aggregate for the last year was known to exceed 140,000,000l.—of that expence he was by no means disposed to complain, as it had led to such important results. But then its amount, combined with the circumstances of the country, must suggest to every considerate man the necessity of looking to every practicable means of its diminution, and reducing our future expences. The expenditure occasioned by our army on the continent was not less than between 12 and 13 millions a year; and surely, without pressing for the immediate return of that army, ministers were called upon to state their intentions, in order that the country might know when and how far it might calculate upon enjoying the consequences of peace. Ministers should, indeed, have availed themselves of the different opportunities which had occurred, both in the Committee of Supply, and on other occasions, to communicate these intentions for the public satisfaction; but even now he should be glad to have an explanation from them upon this important subject.

§ Mr. Lushington
observed, that the remarks of the hon. gentleman would be rather more applicable on the discussion of the army estimates than on the motion before the House, which referred only to the army extraordinaries. On the part of ministers, he could venture to say, that from the moment of the cessation of hostilities their attention was most diligently directed to the consideration of every practicable means of reducing the expences incident to war. But, as the question of our military expenditure would come more fully and properly before the House on Friday, in discussing the army estimates, he should not enter further into the subject at present.

§ Mr. H. Addington
said, that he was not prepared for any discussion this evening on the subject of our military expenditure; but the hon. member on the other side, whose observations he convinced rather premature, as his hon. friend had remarked, having adverted to the conduct of the department, with which he (Mr. A.) was officially connected, he thought it proper shortly to explain. With regard to the militia, the fact was, that the letters 1045 ordering that corps to be disembodied were actually in readiness to be issued as soon as the preliminaries of peace were signed; and that, according to uniform practice, was the proper period for issuing such orders. It was also to be considered, that the reduction of the militia could not be the work of a day, especially as there were several of the English militia regiments in Ireland. But that ministers were active in endeavouring to reduce the expences of war, the country would, he had no doubt, be fully satisfied. To his knowledge, indeed, many measures with a view to that reduction had been taken as early as possible. Among others, orders were issued to prevent the local militia from being called out as usual to be trained; and similar orders, with a view to economy, had been circulated with respect to the yeomanry.

§ Sir J. Yorke
observed, that although one great enemy of this country, Buonaparté had been deposed, there was another gentleman whose deposition was also necessary to our interest; he meant Mr. President Madison; and with a view to that deposition, a considerable naval force must be kept up, especially in the Atlantic. But as to his hon. friend's opinion respecting the reduction of the navy, he wished it to be considered that a number of shipping were employed in conveying French prisoners to France, and bringing home our own countrymen. So much for the occupation of our navy on the home station. But from the Mediterranean, for instance, several three-deckers were ordered home; and he could "swear," [a laugh] that no practicable exertion would be remitted to reduce the expence of our naval department.

Mr. Fremantle
was not altogether satisfied with the explanation given. That force which had been, in a great measure, created to resist the measures of Buonaparté ought to be done away when his system was at an end. Did the hon. gentleman, when he stated part of the militia to be abroad, mean to say, that because that part which was out of the country could not be immediately disbanded, no reduction whatever ought to take place for the present, not till the whole were brought home? He contended, a reduction ought to be made from day to day, from hour to hour, and he would almost say, man by man, as far as was practicable. He was of opinion, that we had already a sufficient number of ships off America; and those 1046 fleet which had been in the Downs, and which had been applicable to the Basque Roads, the Scheldt, and various parts of the Mediterranean, might immediately be paid off, or much reduced. Though not satisfied with the explanation of the right hon. gentleman, he was glad that he had gained for the country a declaration that a great reduction would be made when the preliminaries of peace shall have been signed.

§ Mr. Bathurst
did not complain of the hon. gentleman for making a second speech; but he thought he had a right to complain when he look credit to himself for having gained a declaration of vast importance to the country, because it had been said, a great reduction would be made both in the army and navy when the preliminaries of peace were signed. Could any man in the country be so ignorant as not to know this would be necessarily the consequence of that peace which by this time, he hoped, was nearly concluded? It had been customary to take sums on account for the military service of the year; but now the time was nearly come, at which it would be for ministers to state what the expence of our establishment should be in future. In the present situation of things, though he was far from imputing any feeling hostile to a general pacification, to any of the powers with whom he had to treat, he could see nothing to induce government to depart from the ordinary practice of making no material reductions on our army or navy till preliminaries of peace were signed. Though proofs of the most amicable disposition were given by the parties opposed to us in the negociations, still they had great interests to attend to; and questions might arise, on which the representative of this country would not be able to speak with sufficient weight, if a reduction of our army or navy preceded the discussion. Till the preliminaries were arranged, it was impossible for ministers to say what establishment would be necessary for the time to come.

§ Mr. Lushington
took occasion to say, an arrangement would be made with respect to emigrants as soon as possible; but it would be a hard and an unfeeling thing to deprive them of their present income before they could be attendee to by their own government.