The Chancellor of the Exchequerrose for the purpose of moving, that the act of last session, making Bank Notes a legal tender, in certain cases, be continued under certain amendments, and that its provisions be extended to Ireland. It was not necessary, he observed, in this stage of the proceeding, to make many observations, but looking back to the discussion that took place last session when he introduced a similar measure, he was aware that the Bill (if the House permitted him to bring it in), would not pass without occasioning very considerable discussions. He would shortly slate the course which he would propose the House to adopt on the present occasion. He bad no intention whatever of hurrying the Bill through the House, as many gentlemen members for Ireland were at present necessarily engaged in that kingdom, and from the nature of their engagements at the different assizes would not be enabled to attend the discussions for some time; he should therefore propose to read the Bill a first and second lime before the holidays, to have it printed, and then to appoint some day after the recess for the commitment of it, in order that gentlemen from Ireland might be present at the discussion of the various provisions. He would now barely state the nature of the circumstances which induced him to recommend the continuance of the measure. He did not intend to make any other alteration in the provisions, further than extending the operation of the Bill to Ireland, and providing that payments of Bank notes into court, out of court, and in process of law, should be deemed legal payments. Since the passing of the last Bill, he had ascertained that in the courts of King's bench. Common Pleas, and Exchequer, there had been but three actions brought on the question of legality of tender. One was an action of replevin tried before lord Ellenborough, where a tender in Bank notes was proved; but in the present state of the law that was deemed not a sufficient answer to the action. The other was an action of my lord King against one of his tenants for the small sum of 45l. the object of which was evidently merely to try the question: the 5 money was paid into court and the proceedings were stayed, the noble lord haying previously given notice that he would not receive notes as legal tender. The other was also an action for a small sum which was paid into court, and no subsequent proceedings took place. These were the only cases which he had been able to find upon record. According to the provisions of the Bill, it did not occasion any impediment to prosecutions if the public had been inclined to quarrel with it, therefore he was justified in saying that there was no great disposition to resist the measure, nor did the public feel much oppression from it, because if they felt aggrieved, actions in many instances would have been brought. The circumstance of so few being instituted, shewed that the public were not anxious to procure money in payment of their demands. He was, of course, confirmed in the opinion he had expressed when the matter was last before the House, that hostility to the measure was not a sentiment generally prevalent in the country, and that there were but few who would be inclined to follow the example of the noble lord (King). It might be said, if the evil was of so very limited an extent, there was no need of a remedy. In this he could not concur; for if men once found that they could, by oppression against their neighbours, promote their own advantage, there were, he was afraid, many who, if not restrained by law, would not scruple to do so; but the rarity of the attempt to commit an evil afforded consolation when a remedy was sought to be provided against it: and the present measure was only giving security to that species of payment which the great body of the people were evidently willing to receive. With these few observations he should content himself, and move, "That leave be given to bring in a Bill to continue and amend an act of the last session of parliament, for making more effectual provision for preventing the current gold coin of the realm from being paid or accepted for a greater value than the current value of such coin, for preventing any note or bill of the governor and company of the Bank of England from being received for any smaller sum than the sum thereat; specified, and for staying proceedings upon a distress by tender of such notes, and to extend the same to Ireland."
Lord Folkestonesaid he was unable, even in that early stage of the business, to avoid 6 expressing his astonishment at the very flippant manner in which the right hon. gentleman had introduced and argued the present motion, when the question was actually neither more nor less than that of making bank-notes a legal tender. The language of the right hon. gentleman when the Bill was originally brought forward, towards the close of last session, and on the spur of a pretended occasion, was very different. He then said it was merely an experiment called for to meet a particular exigency, and it was generally understood that the Bill was not intended to be renewed, until at least it had been duly examined in all its various bearings. Yet within nine days before the expiration of that Bill, the right hon. gentleman came down to propose not only its revival but an additional provision, which it was obvious, would have exactly the same effect as making Bank-notes a legal tender. Besides this, there were other circumstances that had passed this night, which ought, in his opinion, to determine the House to pause before they gave leave to bring in this Bill. The noble lord opposite (Castlereagh) had last year objected particularly to the extending of this Bill to Ireland, because bargains in the north of that country being made for payment in gold, it would have the effect of defrauding the creditors. It would consequently be well to consider whether the present petitioners from Belfast, who complained of a loss of 25 per cent. on the payments in gold, were debtors or creditors—tenants or landlords? Whether they meant to relieve themselves from their obligations by a cheaper mode of payment, or whether they were impelled by generosity to relieve those who were indebted to them? It seemed that all contracts for lands in Ireland had been made for payment of the rent in gold; and now, if these petitioners were tenants, it would shew clearly they were desirous to pay in a medium of less value than gold. He thought the House would be wary how they admitted this: if the contract was made expressly for a gold payment, which had, as he was informed, long been the custom in Ireland, forcing the party who had a right in virtue of his contract to receive gold only, to accept of paper in its stead, would be highly unjust, and was a good argument against the Bill being extended. One of the main reasons adduced in favour of the Bill of last session was, the increased and increasing price of gold. 7 Now if he was rightly informed, gold was diminishing in price, and therefore the attempt to continue the Bill only shewed that ministers were determined to have such a Bill in all cases, and at any rate. Though the price of gold was now actually diminished, it was however by no means in consequence of the Bill of last session, because gold rose in price for some months after it passed, and the greatest distress was experienced in the western parts of England, particularly for want of silver to carry on the common concerns of trade; and in most towns the inhabitants were under the necessity of issuing out tokens of their own, to avoid a total stagnation of the most ordinary business. Another reason against renewing the Bill, was, that it had failed in one of its principal objects, viz. that of preventing more than one-and-twenty-shillings being given for a guinea. The Bill only provided against giving more than a Banknote and a shilling for a guinea; but by changing the Bank of England for country bank-notes, you might add as many shillings to those as you pleased, and could not be hurt for it; so that it was daily and hourly evaded with impunity. As a proof of this, there had only one conviction taken place since passing the Act, and that was of a man seduced into the transaction by a police-officer sent on purpose to trepan him into the fact. The provisions of the Act had not been accomplished, nor would be accomplished: and he hoped, therefore, the House would exercise its discretion, before it gave a sanction to the renewal of such a Bill. As to the new clause proposed by the right hon. gentleman, and which went not only materially to alter the Bill, but also to substitute a fictitious circulating medium, as a legal tender for payment, in lieu of the standard coin of the realm, he conjured the House to pause before they consented to entertain a proposition so ruinous to the credit and to the vital interests of the country.
Lord Castlereaghwas not disposed at present to go into any arguments on the Bill, as frequent opportunities would hereafter occur for the discussion of its merits. He should only notice that the noble lord seemed to adhere to the opinions entertained by him last session, and to press his opposition before the Bill was brought in. He wished to correct him in two points, in which he appeared to be under misapprehension with respect to what he 8 (lord C.) and his right hon. friend had stated. The reason which he had for not extending the measure to Ireland last session, was on account of the absence of many Irish members, and not from any view that it would not be desirable for that country. He had stated that it was his opinion that the circumstances of Ireland, in a certain degree, varied from those of England, so as to exclude at that time its introduction. As to the supposed pledge of his right hon. friend, he apprehended, that he had stated quite the reverse of what the noble lord had imputed to him; for his right hon. friend bad stated, that if nothing short of making Bank notes a legal tender would serve to correct the evil, a remedy to that extent must be applied. He thought, that so long as the Bank of England were prohibited by law from paying their notes in gold, the legislature owed it to the subject to protect him against any demands which were not under these circumstances equitable; because, by not affording that protection, great injustice might be done to the subjects of the realm. In that opinion his right hon. friend had coincided. With respect to the practice in Belfast and its vicinity, the noble lord was misinformed, for the practice was the reverse of what he had stated; contracts were made there to pay in pounds sterling, and not in gold. Guineas had ceased to be the circulating medium, and therefore the subject could not pay his debts in gold; and ought to be protected by law from being called upon to do that which it was totally out of his power to effect.
Lord Folkestoneexplained, that he had a clear recollection on both the points, in which the noble lord had supposed him to be in error.
§ Mr. Tierneywould not oppose the motion for leave to bring in the Bill, but observed that it was very evident from the speech of the right hon. gentleman him self, that the country was already in the situation which bad been predicted last session, namely, in a situation of moving from bad to worse. He asked in what respect did this measure fall short of making Bank notes a legal tender? The answer was, that they were to be legal tenders only in a court of justice. But what law was there which could compel any man to part with his goods or property contrary to his inclination? The fact was, that this Bill went to affect immediately all interests and every class of society. If he 9 were to buy 1,000l. worth of plate, would he not be perfectly secure in paying for the commodity in Bank notes? If the silversmith brought an action in a court of law, the payment into court of 1,000l. in Bank notes would be an acquittal of the defendant. And how then could this Bill be said not to go the full length of making these notes a legal tender? He implored the House to consider well this subject before they came to a decision upon it. Unless he could himself perceive an altered disposition in the House, he should deem all endeavour at argument superfluous and unnecessary, for, after the protracted and lucid discussion which the measure of last session had undergone, after the able report which had been presented by the committee on the subject, nothing could be expected from opposition but obloquy, and the man who stood forward against the Bill would be accused of a wish to subvert public credit. At the same time, he had that opinion of the right hon. gentleman's good sense as to believe, that he had experienced no small degree of pain in coming to a resolution to submit such a proposition to the House. He knew indeed that the right hon. gentleman dared not meddle with the Bank.—He knew that the government had proceeded so far, that the Bank had become its masters, and the masters of the finance of the country.—It remained therefore for that House to resume its character and exercise its duties, by shewing to the Bank that at least parliament was above them, and was determined to protect the credit of the country. He could not see in what manner it would fall short of a direct fraud, to compel the subject to take in payment for goods of real value a paper, the value of which it was impossible for him to ascertain. There had been much talk of the French assignats, but in one point of view their forced circulation was less atrocious than that of Bank-notes, inasmuch as the assignats were grounded on some sort of pledged security, on national domains, the property of the state. [Here the Chancellor of the Exchequer smiled.]—The right hon. gentleman smiled at his venturing to contrast the enormous issues of the French government with those of the Bank of England; but he was prepared to contend that the French did at least seek to save appearances, which was more than the right hon. gentleman thought it worth his care to do. This new manifestation of his views and intentions, ought to make 10 every man of property pause before he any longer placed his confidence in parliament, which was now about to sanction a measure that must necessarily prove a mortal blow to the credit of the Bank itself. The Bank had now no other interest than the interests of their own monopoly to attend to. The time once was when their corporate interests went band in band with the commercial and financial interests of the country; but they had now become distinct and separate, and no other security remained for the public but the forbearance of the Bank. He meant no reflection whatever on the individual characters of the directors—with many of them he had lived in habits of personal confidence; for some of whom he bad the highest personal esteem. But as a corporate body their conduct had no claim on his respect—they had in that capacity deserved no confidence, except the confidence of the right hon. gentleman, whom they were always prepared to accommodate. He knew of nothing that they had done for the promotion of the public interests, but he knew of much for the gratification of their own thirst and eagerness of gain. It was now incumbent on them to shew what they had hitherto pertinaciously concealed—he meant the real amount of their profits since the suspension of cash payments. As soon as the immediate question should be disposed of, he would take the liberty of moving for this account, as well as for a committee to inquire into the state of the affairs of the Bank. This might serve to shew that there were some who did not shrink from doing their duty on this occasion, and who wished to warn the House upon the new and perilous crisis to which they were arriving. He would at least not be one of those to lead the people of this country ad ignotum per ignota to a situation in which the establishment of a legal tender would leave no other security than the gold and silver in the actual possession of the Bank. He did not mean to say that for every note that was issued a corresponding sum should be kept in its coffers, but when he saw the directors and the right hon. gentleman in league together to give a forced currency to Bank notes, he had a right to satisfy himself about the intrinsic value of those notes. He recollected that one of the governors of the Bank had last session represented himself as entertaining considerable objections to the measure of a legal tender, and he should be now 11 happy to learn that the hon. gentleman remained unaltered in his opinion. He was aware that by the employment of certain arts, and by certain means, almost the whole of the commercial interest had been taught to believe, that their prosperity was essentially connected with the present system of Bank issues. He knew that ail this might be urged again, and that he might easily be described as a person who wished to destroy the credit of the country. He should, however, have no recourse to argument on the present question, because he believed that all argument upon it had been exhausted last session by several of his friends about him, and particularly by one hon. and learned gentleman whom he did not then see in his place (Mr. Horner). "Let the right hon. gentleman then," said Mr. Tierney, take all the responsibility of this proceeding to himself', he is known to plume himself upon his stoutness, and his contempt of majorities or minorities, and he has this day given a pretty good earnest of it. I believe that no other minister would have dared to come down to this House and propose to make the promissory notes of a corporate commercial body a legal tender. Let the right hon. gentleman then continue to advise only with his faithful directors, I shall give him no further opposition, because I believe it to be utterly useless. I shall therefore conclude by declaring before God, that I speak not from the influence of party views when I lay my hand upon my heart, and express it as the settled conviction of my mind, that the measure now proposed will operate to blast for ever the credit of the Bank, and the financial security of the country, and I sit down solemnly protesting against it accordingly."
Lord Castlereaghsaid, in explanation, that there was a substantial distinction between compelling the acceptance of notes as a legal tender, and making them a legal tender into court.
§ Mr. Whitbreadridiculed the distinction drawn by the noble lord, which, he contended, amounted to nothing.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerhad never supposed that the opposition made by the right hon. gentleman, or those who acted with him, was for the purpose of destroying the credit of the country, but he had conceived that the enlightened policy, as it was called, proposed by them would, if adopted, have proved ruinous and ineffectual.—With respect to the charge of stoutness and disregard of being in a ma- 12 jority or a minority, made against him by the right hon. gentleman, he could assure him that he was far from feeling so indifferent as he was represented to be, on that point. In the measures he proposed, he was actuated by a strong conviction of their being such as were approved of by the great majority of the feeling and sense of live country as well as of parliament; and the right hon. gentleman himself had been obliged to confess that he was aware the measure was so popular, while be protested against it, that he knew it was in vain for him to oppose it, though he attributed this popularity to the impositions practised on the country by artful and designing men. It was rather a singular way of supporting his argument, for the right hon. gentleman to confess that the entire mercantile body of the country was against him He really conceived that they were as likely to form a true estimate of their own interests as the right hon. gentleman. He no doubt felt some pain in proposing this measure, but he must be a hardy politician, indeed, who in the present circumstances of the world would do any thing to endanger the credit of the Bank. As to the mode of endangering it, he knew that he differed widely from the right hon. gentleman. He believed it to be perfectly impossible, at present, whatever it might be at other periods, to fix any precise limit to the issues of the Bank, without producing serious occasional inconvenience to the public service. With respect to the disposition of the right hon. gentleman not to oppose this measure, he would be extremely happy to see this disposition exerted on other occasions, and extended to all questions relative to the policy of the present administration.
§ Mr. Tierneysaid, that the right hon. gentleman was mistaken in supposing, that he would not oppose any measure brought forward by him; he would give no such pledge, as he never saw any gentleman whom he was so much inclined to oppose.
§ The House then divided, when there appeared—
| For the Motion | 73 |
| Against it | 26 |
| Majority | —47 |
§ Leave was accordingly given to bring in the Bill.