ARMY ESTIMATES—FOREIGN TROOPS IN BRITISH PAY. (Hansard, 23 February 1812)

Lord Folkestone
objected to its being brought up, until he had put some questions to the noble lord who had moved the Army Estimates. There had been, he observed, for many years past, a very great increase in the number of foreign troops taken into British pay. They had increased from 5 to 30,000. This alarming increase he viewed with considerable jealousy, because it was not confined to those regiments on foreign stations, seeing that foreigners were enlisted into battalions in the Home Establishment. Two acts had been passed, authorising the enlistment of this description of soldiers in the course of the present reign, but these acts were to be viewed in the light of acts of indemnity to the government for having violated the constitution. What, however, he particularly wished to call the attention of the House to, and to require explanation from the noble lord was, with respect to the enlistment of these foreign troops into British battalions. He understood that the fact was so; at least it had been so stated to him. If it was not true, the noble lord would inform the House. It had also been told him, that our officers had been allowed to recruit their regiments from among the French prisoners. He particularly alluded to the 10th Light Dragoons, into which regiment he was informed upwards of one hundred men had been enlisted. If what he now stated was true, the orders must have been given by the commanding officer, or from the War Office. It might be said, that the two acts to which he had alluded would sanction the practice, but he should deny that any, act of parliament could justify such a measure, or could authorise the enlistment of foreigners, except into foreign corps. There was another circumstance which demanded notice, and that was permitting foreigners to bold commissions in British regiments. Such permission was contrary to the act, and was an evil daily increasing. He understood there was a foreign general commanding a district in this country. The noble lord, he trusted, would explain these matters to the satisfaction of the House.

§ Lord Palmerston
said he was disposed to answer the noble lord, and he hoped satisfactorily. With respect to the question about the enlistment into the 10th regiment of Light Dragoons, it certainly had been determined to allow a certain number of prisoners to enter into that regi- 909 ment, but those were not Frenchmen, but Germans. To such a determination there could not be any objection oh any principle, because it was well known that the French army was daily recruiting its strength by the enlistment of Germans, and the people of that country would rather serve Great Britain than France. As to the circumstance of foreign officers bearing commissions in our army, there was a specific act of parliament authorising his Majesty to avail himself of the services of foreign officers. The 97th regiment was originally composed of foreigners; now, however, it was principally composed of natives of Ireland, consequently of British subjects. The noble lord had stated that a foreign general was employed on one of the home districts. He wished the noble lord could name the person he alluded to. [Lord Folkestone said, general Linsingen.] If general Linsingen was the officer, he was appointed to command a depot composed of troops of his own country.

Lord Folkestone
observed, that the answer of the noble lord had not convinced him that the permission was justified. On the contrary, it had been given contrary to the Act of Settlement, and to all the acts of parliament passed on the subject, since that period.

§ Mr. Lamb
confessed he thought some inquiry necessary, because this was a favourite topic for popular purposes, and one which those who had popular objects in view, found it very convenient to use. He could not, however, but think the conduct of the noble lord and others very extraordinary, in representing every thing that might be construed into a grievance in its worst colours; as if no consideration was to be bad of the peculiar difficulties in the situation of the country. Were foreigners wantonly introduced, or did there not exist a sweeping and over-ruling necessity for resorting to new and extraordinary measures, if we were at all to contend with an enemy who left no means untried, and who had, and who exercised, the power of forcing all descriptions of men into his service? He doubted not that in ordinary times the government of the country would readily adhere to the Act of Settlement, as a provision intimately connected with the safety of the constitution; but under such a change of times and circumstances as was now witnessed, he could not perceive the propriety of setting up such complaints. 910 Let the noble lord look at the state of the world—let him only look at the increased and increasing power of the ruler of France, the vast extent of country which he had become possessed of on the continent, and the power which of course was afforded him, not only of enlisting, but of compelling the services of the people of the states he had subjugated, and then say whether, with such unexampled resources within his grasp, this country should not be at liberty to resort to the same means of recruiting its strength, in order to oppose his effort with some chance of success. Measures of this kind were to be deplored, but they were measures which the necessity of the times imposed upon the country.

§ Mr. Curwen
declared that, during the whole of the twenty-five years he had sat in parliament, he had never heard such a doctrine as that of the hon. gentleman who spoke last. He had always thought, from all he knew of the history of the country, that the true way of supporting its interests in difficult times was by a strict adherence to the laws. The character of the House and the welfare of the nation had been upheld at such seasons by inspiring the people with confidence and spirits, not by banishing the one and depressing the other. At former periods the government had endeavoured to conciliate the affections and to elevate the hopes of the country by an uniform and scrupulous attention to its fundamental laws and institutions. What was it that the noble lord had asked for, but that a bill of indemnity should, consistent with the practice of the constitution, be resorted to in these cases, in order that parliament might be left to judge of the wisdom of the measure. It was this contempt of public opinion which formed one of the principal causes of our present calamities. The opinion of the House itself was equally despised by those men who unhappily continued to have the direction of affairs. There lay the real danger—there were the seeds of the real evil. The strength of the country was in its law, not in its hired armies. He could not see the policy of enlisting prisoners: he could not see the necessity of it, in the well known condition of our manufacturers: he could see no argument to justify it. If there was one feature which he lamented more than another in the conduct of government, it was this, that when retrenchment 911 was called for by the House, the government paid no respect to the feelings of the people, but employed foreign soldiers, and gave them that pay which of right belonged to the people. If he could conceive the most distant hope of benefit to the country in its present distressed situation, it would emanate from the recollection that the assumption of power by his royal highness the Prince Regent would tend to bring forth measures for lightening the burthen of the subject—he trusted that hope would be ultimately realized, and that the abuses at present existing would be done away. He must disapprove of giving encouragement to persons found in arms against this country; it was treating the people of England in a manner to which their long sufferings do not entitle them.

Mr. M. Montague
thought the hon. gentleman had entirely forgot what had passed in the last century, for if he would refer to the act, he would see that it authorised what was now complained of, and therefore his arguments fell to the ground. The hon. gentleman maintained, that there was not the same danger now from the introduction of foreign soldiers as formerly, because the army had been materially increased since then. He was of opinion that great confidence ought to be placed in those who now conducted the administration of public affairs.

§ Mr. Fremantle
took notice of several items in the present estimates, the result of which was, that there appeared an excess of 600,000l. above the amount voted last year. He thought this an extraordinary increase, when he found that only 1,900 men had been added to the disposable force of the country.

§ Lord Palmerston
explained the cause of the difference to be, that the pay of the adjutants and quarter-masters had been transferred to the present estimate, from the estimates of the staff. With respect' to the observation on the general increase of 600,000l. of expence, while the increase of the numbers of the army was only stated to be 1,900, he believed it would be found that he had stated an increase of upwards of 15,000 on the establishment, including regulars and militia.