COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. (Hansard, 3 December 1812)

Mr. Greevey
said he could not suffer the question of Supply to be adverted to without making some comments upon the present depreciated state of the paper currency of the country. The ill effects of the opinion recorded by the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer during the last session of parliament, that paper was of equal value with gold, had now been fully experienced. He had heard that government themselves had become deniers in gold, and had actually been obliged to buy guineas at the rate of 27s. and 28s. apiece. He would wish to know whether this was a fact or not; as when he saw that persons of low condition were daily punished for this species of offence, he was at least anxious to learn that the framers of the law which led to these severities, were not themselves the first to break it. If this was the case, they were at an expence of from 35 to 40 per cent. for every 100l. which they sent to the continent, which, with other ruinous circumstances arising from a debased paper currency, called loudly for redress. Before the question of Supply was put, he begged leave to move, as a substitute for that motion, "That this House will take into its early consideration the state of the Paper Currency of this kingdom."

The Chancellor of the Exchequer
said he should have hoped, after the House had no longer ago than yesterday promised to 172 the Prince Regent liberally to contribute to the supplies necessary for the support of the country, that no person would be capable of refusing all support, and of proposing to leave the Prince and the country defenceless, and without the means of carrying on the war, or resisting the enemy. He knew it was usual when questions of Supply were agitated, to take a large range over the conduct of his Majesty's ministers, but he never before knew an instance in which an amendment) was made to the general question for a supply to the crown. To himself it was a matter of indifference when the conduct of his Majesty's government was canvassed, but he certainly thought the hon. gentleman might have found another opportunity for his motion. At present he did not think it a fit opportunity of entering at large into the topic to which the hon. gentleman had adverted, and should therefore content himself with saying, in answer to what had passed, that he felt more fully confirmed, by every day's experience, of the soundness of the principles which he had advanced in the last parliament upon the subject of paper currency. Had the opinions of the hon. gentleman and some of his friends prevailed, with reference to the same subject, he had not the slightest doubt, that a fatal blow would have been given to the credit and commerce of the country, and to the rising hopes of the liberties and independence of Europe. Such being his opinion, he thought he could not do better than immediately take the judgment of the House upon the motion which had been made.

§ Mr. Whitbread
wished to correct the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer on one point. His hon. friend by his amendment did not refuse supplies; he only wished the House to pledge itself to an early consideration of the depreciated state of the paper currency. His principal object in rising, however, was to remind the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that he had forgotten to answer two questions put by his hon. friend; first, what was his opinion as to the value of the Bank-note, compared with the gold coin of the realm? and, secondly, whether any agents were employed by government to purchase the said coin? If so, he thought it was an act of flagrant injustice to commence state prosecutions against individuals, for crimes such as the state itself committed. He protested 173 against the imputation of denying supplies altogether. He saw no reason, if the amendment of his hon. friend were carried, why the House should not afterwards go into a Committee of Supply.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer
said, he was at all times ready to answer questions of fact; but he would not answer questions of opinion, more especially of his own opinion of the opinion of others. He begged in answer to the second question, to state distinctly, that no agent had ever been employed by government to purchase the coin of the realm; and further, that so late as yesterday, a large sum had been offered to him, which he had refused to purchase.—(A laugh.)

§ Lord Milton
did not mean to support the amendment of his hon. friend. He concurred in opinion with him, that the subject required a very serious discussion, and that it was the peculiar province of the House to guard the public purse. He was surprised, however, at the observation of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the House had pledged itself yesterday to the Prince Regent, to grant the necessary supplies: the noble lord thought that it was perfectly understood that the Address did not pledge the House to any thing.

§ Mr. H. Martin
asked whether it was the intention of ministers to adopt any economical plan of reform, and retrenchment of expenditure, in consequence of the Reports of the different Committees, which were then on their table; if not, he should take an early opportunity of calling the attention of the House to those Reports.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer
said, that he had endeavoured to look into the subject with all the attention in his power, but he was not prepared to present any digested plan upon the subject.

§ Mr. Whitbread
wished the Chancellor of the Exchequer to inform him of the amount of the gold offered to him, and whether it was the coin of the realm, and also what was the price. He thought the seller must be a very clumsy fellow to attempt to draw the Chancellor of the Exchequer into a breach of the law of the land—to endeavour to persuade him to an act which would subject him to imprisonment, if not to transportation. Certainly the right hon. gentleman had the Attorney General to protect him—(A laugh).

The Chancellor of the Exchequer
begged leave to state, in reply, that it was not to 174 himself, but to a friend, that the offer was made. The sum was 27,000 guineas, and the price, he believed, was about 25 shillings each.
The conversation then dropped, and the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was carried.