HC Deb 10 April 1812 vol 22 cc273-8
Mr. Curwen.

Seeing the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his place, I feel myself reluctantly called upon to intreat his attention to the present high price of grain. I say reluctantly, because I am fully aware, that extreme caution should be used in mentioning any thing that may be likely to create alarm on so serious a subject as a scarcity of provisions. But, impressed as I am with its importance, I could not excuse my self if I were not now to bring it under the notice of the House. The right hon. gentleman will do me the justice to bear testimony that the views I have taken, are not the creation of a moment, since at the conclusion of the last year, in the end of October or beginning of November, I stated to him my firm conviction (the result of a circuit I had just made through the country) that the crop would be deficient, and that early measures ought to be taken to guard against the inconveniencies which I foresaw must ensue. These sentiments I conveyed to the right hon. gentleman at a time when the competition between sugar and grain in the distilleries was in contemplation. I now, therefore, again beg leave to state the confirmation of my fears, and to tell him that there has been a most alarming advance in the price of grain in various parts of the country; and this very day's post has conveyed to me intelligence, that in a place particularly connected with my interests, and inhabited by my constituents, serious disturbances have broken out, in which some lives have been lost, and more are endangered. I trust, that in staling what I new feel it my duty to mention, it will not be said that I am exclaiming, that there is not sufficient grain in the country to avert the calamity of a famine, if it be properly managed, but if the same supineness still exists, which I have previously complained of, with regard to the main basis of national prosperity, I mean the agricultural interests of the country, the most melancholy consequences are to be apprehended. I should have thought that the proof, that in the last year there were no less than two million quarters of grain imported into the kingdom, would have been a sufficient inducement to a wise and provident government, to have adopted some legislative measure to prevent the recurrence of such a circumstance.

I do not mean to spread any unnecessary alarm, for my firm belief is, that if well husbanded, there is a sufficient supply of grain to answer our necessities. I do not dread any thing like a famine, but I believe that the price will soon be so high, as to press with great severity upon the labouring poor. I therefore think that my duty would not be performed, if I did not attempt to point out at least a partial remedy, which, without bearing hard upon the lower orders, will leave the principal burden to be sustained, as it ought, by the higher classes of society. At least, in all cases like the present, the comfort of the lower orders, to whom most of the arduous occupations of life are assigned, should be contemplated much more than our own. I calculate that there are yet about twenty weeks to be passed before any new grain can be obtained, and I think by a simple measure we might be enabled to save sufficient for the supply of the country during three weeks of that period, I would suggest the saving of 600,000 quarters or 3 weeks' consumption, by the renewal of the Act of the 41st Geo. 3, ch. 16, by which, it will be recollected it, was provided, that bread should be made only of one quality. Taking the Winchester bushel at the usual weight of 60lbs. it is calculated that it loses by grinding something more than 9lbs. so that when the bran is extracted there remains only about 51lbs. of flour. I think, that by leaving in a part of this bran to the quantity of perhaps only 2 lbs. another saving might be effected, while the bread made would be perfectly wholesome and nutritious, although not so palatable. It would also very much lessen the consumption of bread, if flour were applied solely to that purpose, and were banished from the kitchen as an article of luxury. By these expedients, I should imagine, that one twentieth part of the grain used might be rescued from waste, and applied to the sustenance of the inhabitants of the country. I am quite sure, that upon this subject there can exist no party feeling, however it may be displayed on minor occasions; there can be but one opinion, and that is, to secure by every prudent means that can be adopted, the comfort of the lower classes of the people, who, when they see their legislators exerting themselves so strenuously for their welfare, will cheerfully bear many privations which at present are more than irksome to be indured. I conceive that a few slight alterations, in the statute I have named, would completely effect the object I have in view, and if any assistance were required by the right hon. gentleman, I should be extremely happy to afford it in any way that is within my power.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer.

I have not the slightest difficulty in admitting that the hon. gentleman did, as he has said, acquaint me with the apprehensions he entertained, that the harvest of last year would not be so productive as some persons imagined, and that he did besides pledge himself to support with his interest any measure government might be disposed to suggest, in consequence of the information he so conveyed to me. But I cannot help thinking, whatever may be the scantiness of the harvest of last year, that there is no reason to fear any thing like a famine in the country, and it appears to me neither to be well founded nor to be consistent with the candour I should have expected from the hon. gentleman, that he should accuse as he has done, the government, of supineness with regard to the agricultural interests of the country, with which he is so largely connected. Does he recollect the measure which was, during the last session, introduced by me into parliament regarding the distilleries, and which, by the influence of the hon. gentleman and his friends, was rejected? The object of that Bill was to allow the distiller, when grain should rise to a certain price, to employ sugar in the production of spirits.—Was this an instance of that supineness of which to-day we are told, or rather was it not an instance of a great anxiety on the part of government to guard against circumstances like those now brought under the notice of the House?—With what wisdom that measure was thrown out; on what solid reasons, it is not for me now to speak, because parliament sanctioned the opposition given to it by its vote; and yet in the very same year, and after this successful resistance of the measure I proposed to remedy the evil, the hon. gentleman gave me to understand that he apprehended a scarcity.—Although I was disposed to give every degree of credit to the information then afforded to me (particularly receiving it from a quarter in which I was sure it would be reluctantly stated) yet I felt, after the determination the House had come to that session, that it would be highly improper for government again to attempt to interfere. It will be recollected, likewise, that it was by no means a conceded point at that lime throughout the country that the harvest was so defective, and the measure proposed and successfully resisted was, I thought, all that could be reasonably expected. I trust, therefore, upon the charge of supineness, at least, we shall stand completely acquitted.

The statement made yesterday, that the production of two bushels of corn an acre through out the country, would fully supply its necessities, might perhaps be true; but I am at a loss to imagine how it is to be accomplished, unless the hon. gentleman can prove that the bringing in of an act of parliament would produce the miraculous effect of immediately causing two bushels more to grow on every acre of land; and in thinking that it would not, I do not apprehend we are justly chargeable with supineness. I admit that some benefit might perhaps be done by the suggestions and operations of vigorous and enlightened minds; but the act itself could certainly afford no remedy. As to what the hon. gentleman has advised on the subject of the act of parliament, the House will not expect that at this moment I should be able to give a decided opinion either one way or the other; but I appeal to the experience of every gentleman, whether the advantage derived in 1801 from the Bill then passed, if any, was not very inconsiderable? The impression upon my mind, and generally I believe throughout the kingdom, was, that more mischief than good resulted from the interference of the legislature on that occasion. Discussions in parliament, such as are now brought under our notice, attempting to lower the price of human food, defeat their own object. The act of the 41st of the King was hardly passed, before it was discovered that its execution was utterly impossible. I therefore trust, that if we have not now introduced a Bill, or appointed a committee to enquire into the subject, the House will rather attribute the neglect to a mistaken view with which we have been impressed, than ascribe it to inattention to our duty, or to supineness in promoting the welfare of the country. It has been truly said, that this is a question which can give rise to no party feelings; every man, whether his station be high or low, can have but one object, not only from motives of humanity and kindness, but from the most obvious motives of personal interest. The measure usually adopted in such occasions of stopping distillation from grain, was resorted to almost as soon as parliament was convened. The consideration of government has also been directed to the distillation of spirits in Ireland, in order to decide whether the period be not arrived, at which an attempt should be made to prohibit the use of grain, but they have been convinced of this, that unless there be in that island a strong and universal sense that the measure is absolutely necessary, it would be a vain attempt; the economical regular stills would be prevented from working, and the wasteful mode by private and illicit distillation would be substituted. The consumption of the article would not be diminished, and thus the revenue would be injured without any advantage to counterbalance that injury. The diminution of the revenue, I admit, ought not for a moment to be put in competition with the general comfort and support of the people, yet the nation would thus be doubly pressed, in the first place by the deprivation of grain, and in the next, by defalcation in the revenue. The real question to be decided, is, whether by adopting the measure, any relief would be afforded? The hon. gentleman has not communicated to me a single idea with which my mind has not been long deeply impressed, and if he can suggest a proposition which would be really effectual, nothing will give me greater pleasure than to support it. I am persuaded that he now introduced the subject with the most generous and patriotic feeling, but I would advise him well to weigh the practical effects which have been produced on former occasions by the mere statement of theoretical calculations,

Mr. Curwen

again rising,

The Speaker

observed, that there being no question before the House, he doubted much the propriety of continuing the conversation.

Mr. Curwen

said, he should give notice of a motion to the House on the subject. He did not mean to charge the right hon. gentleman with supineness on the present occasion particularly, but the importation of last year ought to have shewn the necessity of an enquiry into the best means of obviating it in future. He had no doubt, but that the present scarcity of specie was in a great degree owing to the bullion sent out of the country to pay for the grain, of which 8,000,000 worth had been imported in the last year. An alteration of the importation price would have effected the object. With regard to the measure which he had recommended, that it was practicable was certain, and in the north the larger portion of the population lived upon no other kind of bread than such as the Act of which he advised the revival would produce. His letters received that morning from Cumberland informed him, that wheat had risen no less than 30s. per quarter. He gave notice, that unless some circumstance should occur to alter his resolution, he would on Monday move for a Committee to inquire into the present causes of the high price of grain.