Mr. Secretary Ryder, in pursuance of his notice, rose to move for a committee to inquire into the expediency of the erection of Penitentiary Houses. He assured an hon. and learned gent. opposite (sir S. Romilly), who first brought the subject before the House, that much as he differed with him 187 on other subjects, he most cordially agreed with him on this. Desirable, however, as the measure must be allowed to be, gentlemen, he was persuaded, would feel the necessity of investigating the subject by a committee, before the House proceeded to an undertaking which would cost a very large sum of money, and he therefore moved, "That a committee be appointed to consider the expediency of erecting a Penitentiary House or Penitentiary Houses, under the acts of the 34th and 19th of his present Majesty; and to report, in case they should deem the adoption of the measure now referred to them beneficial, whether any additional provision would be wanted for the same, and what number of individuals that house or those houses should be calculated to receive."
Sir S. Romillywould not oppose the motion, though he was still of opinion, that on a subject clear almost to demonstration, an address to the crown at once would be the preferable proceeding. As a committee was to be appointed, however, he thought the objects of their inquiry should be more extensive. He would have then investigate the comparative advantages of confinement in penitentiary houses with imprisonment in the hulks, and transportation to New South Wales. It might turn out, that the first of those punishments might frequently be substituted, with benefit both to the culprit and the public, for the two last; and more particularly for the last, the effects of which were, he believed, frequently the reverse of those which it was intended to produce, and the expence of which was enormous when compared with the expence of erecting penitentiary houses. He proposed as an amendment to insert the words—" And that the committee inquire into the effects that have been produced by the punishments of transportation to New South Wales, and of imprisonment on board the hulks, and report their opinion and observations thereon to the House."
§ Mr. Whitbreadbore testimony to the excellent regulations of the hulks, and to the praiseworthy attention of Mr. Graham, under whose direction they were.
§ Mr. Wilberforcespoke to the same effect, and expressed a hope that the adoption of the amendment might not protract the completion of the report of the committee.
Mr. Secretary Ryderhad no objection to the amendment of his hon. and learned friend. Adverting to the subject of the 188 imprisonment on board the hulks, he expressed his conviction, that at present more individuals were restored good members to society after this, than after any other mode of punishment.
The original motion was then agreed to, and the amendment of sir S. Romilly having been, at the suggestion of the Speaker, converted into a subsequent instruction to the committee, was in that form put and agreed to.